What is music, what is not? - Music Banter Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > The Music Forums > General Music
Register Blogging Today's Posts
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2014, 09:00 PM   #261 (permalink)
Remember the underscore
 
Pet_Sounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The other side
Posts: 2,488
Default

I'll say it again: 4'33" itself isn't music. It's the sounds it draws attention to that are music. 4'33" is nothing; it is silence. Silence in 3/4 time, to be precise. But the sounds it reveals are music.
__________________
Everybody's dying just to get the disease
Pet_Sounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:07 PM   #262 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle View Post
It's still a recorded musical piece.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
Yes. It's not up for the listener to decide, it's the creator.
Using these terms to describe "4'33" doesn't expand the concept of music, it just makes "music" such a vague term that it becomes meaningless. If that's the goal, then congratulations to John Cage for accomplishing absolutely nothing.

As an experiment, it's cool, but calling it music is pretentious nonsense.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:09 PM   #263 (permalink)
Prepare 4 the Fight Scene
 
Mondo Bungle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,675
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle View Post
We get it bro, you're not a profound intellectual like us.
.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriphiel View Post
Hmm, what's this in my pocket?

*epic guitar solo blasts into my face*

DAMN IT MONDO
Mondo Bungle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:09 PM   #264 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,235
Default

wasn't john cage a dude from mortal kombat?
John Wilkes Booth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:10 PM   #265 (permalink)
SOPHIE FOREVER
 
Frownland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East of the Southern North American West
Posts: 35,541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
Using these terms to describe "4'33" doesn't expand the concept of music, it just makes "music" such a vague term that it becomes meaningless. If that's the goal, then congratulations to John Cage for accomplishing absolutely nothing.
It doesn't make it meaningless, it just broadens the scope of it. If you say the word "music" to someone who knows about the philosophy behind the piece then they aren't at a loss for what you mean, they realize that you mean music in the conventional sense. Always hated that argument.
__________________
Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Frownland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:16 PM   #266 (permalink)
moon lake inc.
 
Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Detroit
Posts: 2,125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds View Post
I would argue that 4'33" itself is not music. Rather, it is an artistic statment which makes us aware of the music we unwittingly experience and causes us to take note of the sound of silence.
I really like that look of it, to me it is the music of silence seeing what an important part rest notes are in compositions it's almost like taking it to a new level where inside the silence there is beauty it's weird and I love it, but that's just my two cents.
Machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:29 PM   #267 (permalink)
An Butthole
 
Sequoioideae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Someone's Backyard
Posts: 590
Default

Did Cage ever state the true goal of 4'33"? I feel like it had multiple purposes myself, but I'm curious to see if I'm just looking to hard for something that may not be there. I kind of gathered from it that there is no real silence, that it showcases the various sounds in the background as part of the piece, and is generally never played or heard the same way twice because of the unintentional improvised sounds.
__________________
Funnel From Another Lover

God Is My Solar System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansa Stark View Post
"check yr fucking posable limbs privilege you ****s"
Sequoioideae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:30 PM   #268 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frownland View Post
It doesn't make it meaningless, it just broadens the scope of it. If you say the word "music" to someone who knows about the philosophy behind the piece then they aren't at a loss for what you mean, they realize that you mean music in the conventional sense. Always hated that argument.
If silence can be music, then yes, "music" is a useless term because it's at least as broad a term as sound. If you have to specify "conventional" music, then it's because you've made "music" too broad to be useful, and need to restrict it just for it to make sense.

So, I really like Iron Maiden, and think that they make great sound. In fact, I think that they're sound geniuses.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 09:31 PM   #269 (permalink)
SOPHIE FOREVER
 
Frownland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East of the Southern North American West
Posts: 35,541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
If silence can be music, then yes, "music" is a useless term because it's at least as broad a term as sound. If you have to specify "conventional" music, then it's because you've made "music" too broad to be useful, and need to restrict it just for it to make sense.

So, I really like Iron Maiden, and think that they make great sound. In fact, I think that they're sound geniuses.
You don't have to specify, I said they infer it.
__________________
Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Frownland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 10:30 AM   #270 (permalink)
SOPHIE FOREVER
 
Frownland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: East of the Southern North American West
Posts: 35,541
Default

John Cage vs MB round 2:

__________________
Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Frownland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




© 2003-2024 Advameg, Inc.