Why do people blame Nirvana for killing Hair Metal?

Neapolitan · 10-02-2014, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

By whom? Kids/twenty-somethings/probably-many-thirty-somethings today don't care about disco one way or another. They might know a few songs, and might even know who performed those songs, but it's too far back in time to be anything more than their parents'/grandparents' music. Hair metal is about a decade closer to them, easier to listen to ironically, and had that weird renaissance back in the early-mid '00s that put Motley Crue back in the charts for a year or so. People don't respect it, but they actually do talk about it.

There are quite a few bands today that seem to be influenced by Disco and that might bring new awareness to it. Time has a way of filtering out the bad and the better stuff survives. I think it is possible that Hair Metal and Disco can be seen in a better light than they once did in their respective eras cause people listen to the hits and not the crap that irritated people.

Hair Metal fad was followed by Grunge and Nirvana is commonly considered as the flag-ship band of that movement by fans and critics alike. So I can see where some people might turn that into a narrative - "Nirvana killed Hair Metal." I notice one of Eddie Trunk's co-hosts on That Metal Show absolutely hates Grunge. I wonder by carrying on how much he don't like them like that on the show he corroborate those rumors. I disagree with how Sam Dunn co-opts Punk and Grunge as some kind of off-shoot/sub-genre of Metal. I always felt that it was the opposite and that Metal for most of it's history co-opt Hard Rock, Punk and Hard-core and Grunge. Not the more modern sub-sub-genre of Metal that are mostly distilled derivative forms of those co-opted styles.

I think if Nirvana did indeed both launched the Alternative Rock movement and killed Hair Metal dead then they deserve the Congressional Medal of Honor. But I think people think that or say that to praise them or reveal how obsessed they are with them.

William_the_Bloody · 10-02-2014, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Hey Music banter I am feenin for some music knowledge. As you guys know Rock is not really my forte so I wanted to get some info. I commonly hear Nirvana is the blame for the decline in Hair Metal in the late 80's and I wanted to know your opinion on it. I always thought Hair Metal was a fad that had already declined by the time Nirvana really became popular which was in the early 90's. Did Nirvana's popularity influence generic rock bands like Nickleback, All American Rejects, Panic at the Disco, Foo Fighters or Creed?

How would you define grunge music and was it something that really impacted rock music for the better?

I have always been confused with why Nirvana are so highly regarded (not that they don't necessarily deserve it but just want more clarification as to why)

I notice a lot of the rock bands have really faded out commercially.

The idea that Nirvana killed hair metal is a myth, and like all myths there is some truth to it.

Grunge did replace hair metal as the choice for rock music, but ultimately it was gangster rap that killed hair metal not grunge.

I'll give you an example. I grew up in Canada in a white working class neighborhood filled with heavy metal rockers with long hair, wearing jean jackets and acid washed jeans. By the early 90's all there little brothers were dressed like homies listening to Snoop Dogg and 2 Pac.

Around this time immigration also drastically changed the racial demographics of the neighborhood with a large amount of Indian (Punjabi) and Asian youths. There choice wasn't Axl Rose or rock in general, it was rap.

Take these two factors into account and it was rap music that killed hair metal, as its generally considered the most dominant genre of the 90's, and is still going relatively strong, where as grunge is now pretty much non existent.

Zombeels · 10-02-2014, 01:31 AM

I think hair metal killed hair metal. The market was saturated. Most hair metal fans I know blame Nirvana though. They all hate 'em.

DwnWthVwls · 10-02-2014, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki

I actually think the exact opposite of this. If someone wants to hear the raw sound of Nirvana-esque grunge, Bleach would be the place to go. Nevermind and In Utero are too polished.

Well there ya go, haha. I'll have to check it out when I have some free time. Soo much music soo little time

Key · 10-02-2014, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Well there ya go, haha. I'll have to check it out when I have some free time. Soo much music soo little time

It can take a few listens to really sink in but its truly Nirvana at their finest in my opinion.

Necromancer · 10-02-2014, 08:07 AM

Bands like Guns N Roses, Skid Row, and Badlands began to gain popularity at the expense of hair metal during the late 80s and early 90s with their own new style of gritty hard rock even before the arrival of grunge.
I personally think that hair metal just played its course and dropped out of popularity on its own.

Screen13 · 10-02-2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombeels

I think hair metal killed hair metal. The market was saturated. Most hair metal fans I know blame Nirvana though. They all hate 'em.

This, and the prefect timing when "Smells Like Teen Spirit", one of the final nails of that coffin. When a music that used to be considered rebellious to like even in a very showbiz form gets involved with music that your grandmothers in the trailer park/small dot/yellow stain on the map can like (Re: "More Than Words" and "Every Rose Has it's Thorn"), it's done and over with. Someone wrote about the rise of another generation in this thread as well, and that's true, and a deeper look into the Midwest US that was hit with layoffs and cities turning into dust in quick time (I live right near Flint, MI, by the way - SE MI), one can see a group of kids not being too impressed by what happened before as well as the rise in Boy Groups - I REFUSE to call them Bands - and hearing "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (keep in mind that we have heard what happened before, I'm talking about Joe and Jenny Smalltown in the days before the Internet), you could see why the almost washed-up Aqua Net Addicts should have known that their days were numbered.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-02-2014, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

No, I don't disagree at all. And it was called grunge because it had a dirty, grungy sound.

Why do you think such an alternative band influences so much gimmicky bands?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

The bolded seems like a pretty extreme claim to make. There are many, many genres out there in the world and few have sold as many records or packed as many dancefloors as disco. Do you really think disco is more underappreciated than chicha? Or zydeco? Or stride piano? Or narco-corridos?

Not really sure what to make of your complaints about The Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Of course they'd induct a rock band like Nirvana before a disco band like Chic. I like Chic a lot, but they're not a rock band and weren't particularly influential on rock music so of course they're unlikely to be inducted into a rock museum.

Disco is a very underrated commercial genre. I was referring to the commercial genres and it most definitely is the most underrated amongst those genres. It also is the most discredited.

The Rock Hall of Fame started inducting non rock acts in the Hall way before the 90's. The argument that the Hall is rock oriented is pretty null and void at this point because the RHOF has an abundance of acts that are not rock so I feel that is not a strong argument.

I think Chic should have gotten in before them because they were influential and came out way before Nirvana. There are a ton of non rock acts that are in the hall.

Disco acts overall are criminally overlooked and snubbed not just in the Hall but just in general. I think the industry overrates Rock music period.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-02-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody

The idea that Nirvana killed hair metal is a myth, and like all myths there is some truth to it.

Grunge did replace hair metal as the choice for rock music, but ultimately it was gangster rap that killed hair metal not grunge.

I'll give you an example. I grew up in Canada in a white working class neighborhood filled with heavy metal rockers with long hair, wearing jean jackets and acid washed jeans. By the early 90's all there little brothers were dressed like homies listening to Snoop Dogg and 2 Pac.

Around this time immigration also drastically changed the racial demographics of the neighborhood with a large amount of Indian (Punjabi) and Asian youths. There choice wasn't Axl Rose or rock in general, it was rap.

Take these two factors into account and it was rap music that killed hair metal, as its generally considered the most dominant genre of the 90's, and is still going relatively strong, where as grunge is now pretty much non existent.

Thanks and I agree with a lot of this!

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-02-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromancer

Bands like Guns N Roses, Skid Row, and Badlands began to gain popularity at the expense of hair metal during the late 80s and early 90s with their own new style of gritty hard rock even before the arrival of grunge.
I personally think that hair metal just played its course and dropped out of popularity on its own.

Hey you! And yea it does seem Hair metal had already kinda faded before Nirvana's popularity.

10-02-2014, 01:31 AM	#63 (permalink)
Zombeels Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 339	I think hair metal killed hair metal. The market was saturated. Most hair metal fans I know blame Nirvana though. They all hate 'em. __________________ What It Is

10-02-2014, 08:07 AM	#66 (permalink)
Necromancer Divination Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,655	Bands like Guns N Roses, Skid Row, and Badlands began to gain popularity at the expense of hair metal during the late 80s and early 90s with their own new style of gritty hard rock even before the arrival of grunge. I personally think that hair metal just played its course and dropped out of popularity on its own.