Why do people blame Nirvana for killing Hair Metal?

Wpnfire · 10-03-2014, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I think the reason people hung onto it for so long was because it was the last really big rock movement to hit the mainstream.

Since then nothing has come anywhere close, at least in rock music, unless you want to count Nu Metal, and I don't think too many people want to.

Yeah Linkin Park! Yeah!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I think KISS is an outrageously overrated band and I don't like Gene Simmons. It is interesting you think this way. In what ways do you feel Grunge bands were inspired by them? I don't see it.

Gene Simmons is an *******, and KISS's "music" is horse crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Can someone recommend a Nirvana album for someone who is just getting into their music?

I agree with other members suggestion of in utero. It's challenging to listen to, but there's not a song on it I would even come close to describing as terrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ki

I actually think the exact opposite of this. If someone wants to hear the raw sound of Nirvana-esque grunge, Bleach would be the place to go. Nevermind and In Utero are too polished.

Nevermind is supposed to be polished yeah, but I'm not quite sure I follow with In utero being polished, certainly not in the same way Nevermind is at least.

Mondo Bungle · 10-03-2014, 12:05 AM

KISS rules.

King Buzzo agrees.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-03-2014, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

A small club group?

Tell you what

The DJ List - Genre: Indie Dance / Nu Disco - The DJ List
I'll give you a link listing 337 artists including a lot of big names acts that get plenty of attention in the media and on this forum who sell out clubs all across the world who owe their sound to disco in one form of another.

Tell you what, here's another link to over 1,600 disco inspired mixes & playlists by both amateur and professional DJs
1,600+ Free Nu Disco music playlists | 8tracks internet radio

And I appreciate this! I realized that small comment about not caring a couple posts back about the club you mentioned was not well articulated which is why I edited it but you responded before I edited it.

I sincerely did not mean it as "I didn't care about your suggestion" and I can see how one would take that personally but that is definitely not what I intended it to mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Or maybe you'd like it on CD released by a record company.
Well there's Ministry of Sound, Global Underground, Hed Kandi, Fabric, Kontor, Kitsune and many others who all belonging to major labels who are churning these out by the bucketload month after month. They wouldn't be doing it if nobody was buying them.

And guess what, I'm only a casual fan of this stuff and yet I've uncovered tons of stuff I like and tons of artists putting out music and tons of websites, magazines, critics and fans singing the praises of this stuff with hardly any effort on my part.

But just because I say Disco is not respected as a musical genre does not mean I am not doing all of what you mentioned in this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

It IS there and it IS getting credit, you're just not looking in the right places. Chart music & Industry award ceremonies are a the tiny tip of the iceberg yet one you only seem to focus on.

Neo Soul gets credit on certain outlets and in certain niche clubs but is it respected by the overall industry?

No

Is it a commercial genre?

No

What is wrong with acknowledging that the overall industry does not respect it and it deserves more respect?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Guess what, most of the world's population doesn't give a shit about your favourite artists, welcome to the world of being a music fan.

Of course..... but this is a MUSIC discussion board and in MY opinion Disco music does not get the respect it deserves and I am not thinking about the world population when I make that statement.Why should I? It is MY opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I showed you where it was getting it and first you totally glossed over it, and you just repeated about what the very top of the music industry cares about..... again....and again....and again.

I did not gloss over it. I even agreed with what you said. I just simply said that it still did not change that Disco is underrated overall

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

And then you belittled it without even bothering to check anything out by saying I'm just talking about a few little clubs scattered around the place. I told you of 3 continents that enjoy this stuff and have a club culture that's under the mainstream and you just ignore it.

You ask why there are no albums in the charts, it's because they're not making them. Why go to all the effort of making a whole album when you can make one good song as an independent artist and get it on a compilation or mix put together by a major or large independent label.

That is not what I said. What I said was the music scenes in SOME of those locations that you mentioned have a very similar commercial music scene as America.

If I did not specifically say that then I am clarifying now.

I said that to show you that Disco is still not a very popular genre in some of those locations you mentioned outside America because you said that America does not reflect the world those are your words.

I also said that the popular music channels and outlets such as MTV and VH1 have their own spin offs in some locations outside America. For example, in Europe they have a Europe MTV. As a matter of fact, the EMTV have their own separate award show from the American one. In Japan, they have a Japan MTV but they still play the same American music and American music videos with their own added native artists.

In other words, I appreciate all the examples that you have given. Yes Disco might be niche and might still have a dedicated audience in certain locations outside America but it is not a widely respected genre or a genre that is taken "seriously" even outside America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

That's how disco started in the 70s, DJ's printing their own acetates singles and licensing them to record companies to put out for the public. Ironically it was when record companies started signing these acts to album deal that the whole disco thing began to fall apart because they were treating artists that were releasing singles based club music DJ's and tried to treat them like album based artists like rock or jazz bands. Acid House pretty much died for the same reason in the late 80s so why on earth are you so keen for the mainstream to get involved when it's just that which kills it?

Donna Summer was actually very successful in the 80's as well as Earth Wind&Fire long after the "Disco era" died. They were competing on the charts with MJ, Prince, Madonna, U2, Whitney etc and were still very successful. I agree with what you are saying but this was not the case for ALL the Disco acts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

Even so the the cream of these acts do make the charts and do release albums anyway, Daft Punk, Justice, Chromeo, MGMT, Crystal Castles... any of those names ring any bells, they should do they're mentioned on this forum pretty often.
The fact is things are different to how they were in the 70s & 80s and you can't handle it so you put your fingers in your ears and go LALALALALALALALALALALA and convincing yourself that you're right and everybody else is wrong.

No I just believe strongly Disco deserves more respect and you are just tired of hearing it because you don't care about Disco and that is fine but that is not going to stop me from expressing my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

If that's how you want to be then fine, keep on digging out your Sylvester or Wild Cherry records and enjoy those and convince yourself disco is hard done by and nobody cares, I'll happily listen to those songs too, the only thing is I'll be enjoying the new shit as well and seeing how thing progress in the future.

Yes I will keep listening to the music I love. I will never stop standing up for the music that I love because I am passionate about things that give me joy in my life. Lastly, I will never stop expressing how certain artists/genres deserves more respect because I express my opinions for my heart and not to please people. There is no respect lost over here Urban, thanks for the suggestions I will definitely look into them.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-03-2014, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is mostly filled with rock acts? Shocking!

Hmmm... and it appears that The Country Hall of Fame is mostly filled with country acts. Curiouser and curiouser! It's almost as if museums created around a certain theme... adhere to that theme.

lol

But the Rock Hall of Fame is clearly not specifically a Rock hall because they have inducted numerous of other non Rock acts into the Hall. Why is Disco the most snubbed genre? There are even more Rap acts than Disco in the Hall.

William_the_Bloody · 10-03-2014, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Thanks and I agree with a lot of this!

No worries its a nice little white narrative to say that Nirvana killed hair metal, but in truth it was already being surplanted by rap. All grunge did was stall the slow decline of rock.

That being said I do hate musical genres, I find they end up separating people into cultural enclaves instead of bringing people together. Ie, rap, black, heavy metal, white, such bull****!!!

**Janszoon** · 10-03-2014, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

lol

But the Rock Hall of Fame is clearly not specifically a Rock hall because they have inducted numerous of other non Rock acts into the Hall. Why is Disco the most snubbed genre? There are even more Rap acts than Disco in the Hall.

The non-rock acts are people who have influenced rock music, that's why you see blues and R&B artists there, for example, as opposed to, say, modern classical.

Disco isn't the most snubbed genre. I don't see any salsa groups on the list. I don't see any classical musicians. Hell, Miles Davis is the only jazz artist on there. And since you brought up rap, there have only been four rap acts inducted as opposed to the seven (or eight if you count Isaac Hayes) disco acts I mentioned.

Neapolitan · 10-03-2014, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeHetfield James

Gene Simmons is an *******, and KISS's "music" is horse crap.

Bingo!

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 10-03-2014, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is mostly filled with rock acts? Shocking!

Hmmm... and it appears that The Country Hall of Fame is mostly filled with country acts. Curiouser and curiouser! It's almost as if museums created around a certain theme... adhere to that theme.

Seriously this is the most stupidest argument. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame rates ROCK ARTISTS. Duh! Not Disco. How is this so hard to understand?

And Urban, you made a fantastic post making your point that disco is popular and does get recognition! America does not decide what is most popular worldwide, only in America.

Oh and people, if you're going to have an opinion, at least be able to back it up with real facts like others have.

~~Soulflower~~ · 10-04-2014, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

The non-rock acts are people who have influenced rock music, that's why you see blues and R&B artists there, for example, as opposed to, say, modern classical.

Disco isn't the most snubbed genre. I don't see any salsa groups on the list. I don't see any classical musicians. Hell, Miles Davis is the only jazz artist on there. And since you brought up rap, there have only been four rap acts inducted as opposed to the seven (or eight if you count Isaac Hayes) disco acts I mentioned.

Making Disco music is very different from an actual Disco artist.

Objectively, the only two acts that are Disco artists out of the list you mentioned are The Bee Gee's and Donna Summer.

While these acts might have experimented with Disco in their music,

Michael Jackson is not a disco artist

Earth Wind and Fire are not a disco band and neither are the rest of the acts you mentioned.

Overall, there are more rap acts than disco acts in the hall.

The Bee Gee's and Donna Summer are the only Disco acts in the Hall.

Also, how has Madonna influenced rock music??? She is a cultural pop figure but I don't see how her music has incorporated rock or influenced the progression of the genre.

There are a ton of acts in the Hall that has not influenced rock music. Therefore, other acts should be eligible to be inducted.

**Frownland** · 10-04-2014, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Making Disco music is very different from an actual Disco artist.

Also, just because RRHOF is inclusive of other genres doesn't change the fact that it's the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame, so it's not so that "all other acts should be eligible to be inducted." That's ridiculous.