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-   -   Why does the mainstream industry only want a select few to be popular? (https://www.musicbanter.com/general-music/78172-why-does-mainstream-industry-only-want-select-few-popular.html)

Urban Hat€monger ? 09-21-2014 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489741)
Why is it so far fetched the industry would not have an agenda?

Depends if you think making money is an agenda or not,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489741)
I don't even know who the group is in the above photo. Boy bands were not hyper sexual 20 years ago and if they were that most certainly not the only thing they were selling.

One of the most successful boy bands of the 90s.
And yes they were frequently seen in videos with no shirts on, sexually suggestive poses and all the rest of it. Hell they even got them playing in gay clubs in little leather outfits to try to appeal to that audience early in their career. And it wasn't just them, there were plenty of others doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489741)
Everything that we see and everything that is marketed to us sends subliminal messages or overt messages. Any where from a president speech all the way down to a hair commercial advertisement.

The message that I get from the industry is they want us to accept these mediocre hyper sexual pop stars that make bland music.

Because that's what selling, how many more times does this need pointing out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489741)
We are force to accept these as the best of the best when it comes to pop music because the industry only chooses to market those specific pop stars.

You're not forced to accept it at all, I could hardly tell you a single song any of these people you're referring to because I spend my time concentrating on the stuff I like, and they're not ONLY promoting those acts, they're giving them the priority of the marketing because they make the most money.

Not only that they're also more malleable than 'proper musicians' because the record companies also supply the producers and the songwriters to these acts too.

There's no agenda, it's just profits.

The Batlord 09-21-2014 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489741)
Why is it so far fetched the industry would not have an agenda?

I don't even know who the group is in the above photo. Boy bands were not hyper sexual 20 years ago and if they were that most certainly not the only thing they were selling.

Everything that we see and everything that is marketed to us sends subliminal messages or overt messages. Any where from a president speech all the way down to a hair commercial advertisement.

The message that I get from the industry is they want us to accept these mediocre hyper sexual pop stars that make bland music.

We are force to accept these as the best of the best when it comes to pop music because the industry only chooses to market those specific pop stars.

But they've always wanted us to accept whatever pop stars they tried to shove down our throats. However different their practices might be over the years they still have the same MO that they've always had: make the dummies buy our ****. Just because they may have had better or more diverse artists doesn't mean they cared that they were better or more diverse. They only cared that Michael Jackson and the Rolling Stones made them money. It's not an "agenda", it's just cynical business practices. Sure they use subliminal messaging to get you to buy stuff, but calling it an "agenda" makes it unnecessarily sinister. Business is business, and expecting it to work otherwise is irrational.

Soulflower 09-21-2014 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1489748)
But they've always wanted us to accept whatever pop stars they tried to shove down our throats. However different their practices might be over the years they still have the same MO that they've always had: make the dummies buy our ****. Just because they may have had better or more diverse artists doesn't mean they cared that they were better or more diverse. They only cared that Michael Jackson and the Rolling Stones made them money. It's not an "agenda", it's just cynical business practices. Sure they use subliminal messaging to get you to buy stuff, but calling it an "agenda" makes it unnecessarily sinister. Business is business, and expecting it to work otherwise is irrational.


That is not true. I am not even sure why you brought them in this conversation. During their era's there was way more variety playing on the radio, playing on MTV as well as selling out stadiums and winning awards.

MJ took 4-5 year breaks between his projects and people LOVED him. They were not forcing people to like him.

The industry NOW is completely different.

GD 09-21-2014 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489690)
I really don't care whether she becomes popular or not. I like to use her as an example because she is one of my favorites at the moment and she is a current artist that goes against the ideals of what is popular right now. I admire what she represents which is why I cite her but I really do not care whether she becomes more or less popular because I am always going to be a fan regardless.

I'll believe you when you say it, but realize it can be easy for people to get confused when you seem like you take so much offense to who the industry chooses to promote.

Quote:

My was point was that if Janelle can chart at no. 5 without the industry backing than she surely can top the chart if the industry chose to market her. Her success despite her lack of marketing proves as well as shows that she is "interesting" and marketable.

If Prince, David Bowie, Boy George, Rolling Stones etc were popular in the 80's how come someone like Janelle Monae can't be popular now?

I think the general public accepts what the industry markets. I believe if the industry started to market more variety, the public would accept it like they do all these other boring acts.

I don't care about other's perception. I am just making a obvious observation when it comes to popular music and popular trends. Janelle Monae is an artist that deserves to be a superstar and I believe if she had the backing she would be.

She is not going through hardships. This is a music forum and I am just giving my opinion.
I don't know what I can add to this that hasn't already been brought up. I think it's probably as simple as, in the case of Monae, that from a purely economical standpoint, her label has concluded (not necessarily correctly) that there is more money to be made on prioritizing other artists. They don't take into account how popular an artist "deserves" to be (whatever that may mean).

Oh, and the part about "economical hardships" was a rhetorical question to get my previous point across.

Quote:

My point was that in previous decades popular music was never this bland and it actually had more variety in terms of acts, music and genre. There was objectively more creativity and more experimentation compared to what is going on now.

Would you say Prince and David Bowie were not interesting in the 80's?

I just asked since you are implying popular music has always been just catchy and not risk taking which I completely disagree with.
Bowie: Infinitely better in the 70s (As Urban mentioned, he did "dumb down" his music in the 80s for more commercial appeal.)
Prince: Don't know his material all too well, but as far as I can tell his No. 1 singles could be considered some of his "safest". I really don't know much about promotional history for these though.

The Batlord 09-21-2014 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489758)
That is not true. I am not even sure why you brought them in this conversation. During their era's there was way more variety playing on the radio, playing on MTV as well as selling out stadiums and winning awards.

MJ took 4-5 year breaks between his projects and people LOVED him. They were not forcing people to like him.

The industry NOW is completely different.

My point was that the record companies didn't care how much artistic merit either of those artists had any more than they care about Beyonce or Nicki Minaj. Their basic mentality is the same as it's always been.

Soulflower 09-21-2014 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1489764)
My point was that the record companies didn't care how much artistic merit either of those artists had any more than they care about Beyonce or Nicki Minaj. Their basic mentality is the same as it's always been.


Your argument was that the industry ONLY marketed MJ and The Rolling Stones which is not accurate.

Tina Turner, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, Bruce Springton, Bon Jovi, Prince, David Bowie, Elton John, LL Cool J, Public Enemy, Earth Wind and Fire etc were selling out stadiums, charted the charts and won awards during their eras so your argument that they were the only artists being marketed is pretty ridiculous when there was an variety of acts to choose from.

unlike today where

Beyonce, Rihanna, Katy, Gaga, Taylor Swift, Nikki, Jay Z and Kanye are the only pop stars being marketed.

Janszoon 09-21-2014 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489765)
Your argument was that the industry ONLY marketed MJ and The Rolling Stones which is not accurate.

I think you're taking his comment far too literally. He was giving examples, not the complete list of everyone the labels supported.

The Batlord 09-21-2014 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon (Post 1489766)
I think you're taking his comment far too literally. He was giving examples, not the complete list of everyone the labels supported.

Yeah, this.

Urban Hat€monger ? 09-21-2014 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower (Post 1489765)
Your argument was that the industry ONLY marketed MJ and The Rolling Stones which is not accurate.

Tina Turner, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, Bruce Springton, Bon Jovi, Prince, David Bowie, Elton John, LL Cool J, Public Enemy, Earth Wind and Fire etc were selling out stadiums, charted the charts and won awards during their eras so your argument that they were the only artists being marketed is pretty ridiculous when there was an variety of acts to choose from.

unlike today where

Beyonce, Rihanna, Katy, Gaga, Taylor Swift, Nikki, Jay Z and Kanye are the only pop stars being marketed.

Daft Punk, Justin Timberlake, Michael Buble, Drake, Imagine Dragons, Macklemore & Ryan Lewis, Mumford & Sons, Bruno Mars, Ed Sheeran, Lorde.

All acts that have sold over million last year all that have been well promoted, there's your variety of acts in the mainstream.

GD 09-21-2014 03:45 PM

Btw about the sexualization of the modern pop market:
I think this has a lot to do with the rise of YouTube and similar websites, which have become the main media through which music videos are viewed. The artists' official channels are monetized so that the money made from the music videos are calculated through number of views. Before sites like YouTube came into prominence an artist wouldn't make more money from having a lot of people watch their music video; it was merely a promotional tool. But with the monetization system, on the other hand, you bet a video with Nicki Minaj's butt in the thumbnail is going to get clicked on a lot merely because of that. Many people are also more likely to watch an overtly sexual video all the way to the end just on account of its sexiness, making the label the highest amount of money from each single view, so in these cases, the music no longer is the most important thing, since the main function of the music video isn't to promote the music that goes along with it. So in short, the noticable increase in sexualised music videos can also be tied in to a question of economics.


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