Soulflower

I don't understand people who make bold statements about another artists music but have not listened to their music to make a good judgement.

It matters because a person should not be making a judgement about an artist entire discography when they have not listened to the artists entire discography.

It is not apples and oranges. He only listed her singles from various albums and did not mention albums he has listened to for himself.

Kelis is an eclectic artist. All her songs do not sound the same. She experiments with alot of different genres.

If that is his opinions thats fine.... but listening to five songs from various different albums is not a good judgement of her entire discography.


Huh?

This makes no sense.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?


He made a bold statement about her as an artist and about her entire discography. Someone who has only listened to 5 songs out of her entire discography should not make bold statements such as that when they have not listened to all of the artists music, period.



Kelis is not a mainstream artist. She only has two mainstream hits and that is Milkshake and Bossy. I am not asking him to mention unknown songs. He did not even mention albums or an album he listened to. All her albums sound completely different.

No he did not



This entire conversation is subjective.


I don't know what your problem is but I have never said I was the expert of sale figures or anything of the sort.

DJ said that Beyonce's album initial album sells would have still been the same even if JT, Katy and so forth released there album when she did hers.

I disagree with that because there is past evidence that shows that she does not sell well when other artists drop there album around the same time she does hers.

For example, in 2011 when Adele released her "21" album she out sold everyone INCLUDING Beyonce. In fact Adele's 21 album went diamond!

Beyonce does not have a diamond album and Adeles 21 album is still selling till this day

Beyonces sales figures that were recently presented by Sound Scan shows that combining all 5 of her albums she has a total of 15 million albums sold.

I think this is a very very small number of sells for someone of her status. There are artists that sell 15 million off of one album alone.



Her initial sells for her latest album was due to the way she released it not because it was such a great great album with great great music. Her sells have died down though for that album.

She is not an artist that sells a lot in terms of albums.

She is more so a "singles" artist similar to Rihanna but Rihanna sells more singles.


A review is not going to say..." This is the best album of 2013 because of the way she released it" but I know that is why she got all those good reviews because the album sucks quality wise. When I have some time I will find some reviews.

djchameleon

Constructive criticism? Really? Just calling her music boring is constructive criticism in your books? I'm not saying you have to like her music but that is in no way constructive criticism.

You are doing the same thing that you do in arguments about artists not getting enough credit. You bring up the media and it's always based off of your perspective of what the media says. There is no way in hell that you can actually prove anything. You can snatch up a few articles here and there if you want to but there is no way to prove what the overall media says because it's all different sources. You choose to not see all the hate and being dragged through the mud that she gets and make your opinion based off of that when it's not really the case.

I would ask you who this everyone was but you'd probably just fall back on your tried and true statement of the "media". I can understand her fans sticking up for her but you go above and beyond to place the blame on the media when there are people in the media that are on both sides of the coin. Regardless she didn't get this "pass" that you are referring to.


You also have a problem with telling girls to be comfortable with their bodies.
Do you also have a problem with her singing about female empowerment?
You keep denying that you are slut shaming but that's exactly what you are doing. Women aren't supposed to be proud of their bodies in your eyes. They should be covered from head to toe with dresses that drag across the floor.

She does actually by people just like you! Anything she does she gets ripped apart for. So much so that it seems like you have a personal beef with her.

You asked me for songs and I gave you songs. Now that's not enough and you want me to list off albums. I'm not going to listen to the entire discography of someone that I don't like. I don't go around saying that you have to listen to every Lady Gaga, Beyonce and Rihanna album before you make your outlandish claims that they make boring uninteresting music.
I can listen to only one song of a band/artist and say I have heard their music and make a judgement off of that.

Did you even listen to B'day? yeah....thought so. Yet you want to criticize me for not listening to all of Kelis' albums.

You can doubt that all you want but that's your personal opinion.

All she did was kept herself relevant in the public eye. She didn't perform any of her new songs at any of those events that you listed. I think you need to look up the definition of promotion. She was NOT promoting her new album.

I said your small circle because all of these claims are only based off of your perspective and it's purely subjective and anecdotal.


I thought she was such a media darling? If she was then she wouldn't have even had this backlash that you are referring to. You are also mixing up the female empowerment with feminism they aren't interchangeable.

__________________

Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes.

Scarlett O'Hara

I don't see Bey acting like a slut. Partition is about her sexual empowerment with her partner. It's not slutty to have a sexuality. Showing your ass doesn't mean you are a slut. Last time I checked, being a slut means you sleep with lots of different men. Who are these men you are speaking of her being a slut with?

STOP SLUT SHAMING!!

__________________

Two Spirit

I agree that he's the first, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Bowie's album sold 85,000 the first week and Beyonce's album sold 600,000+ in its first three days.

Bowie isn't being snubbed. His digital release just didn't have any impact like Beyonce's did.

Ninetales

What about the hundreds of thousands of bands you've never heard of releasing digital albums every day without promotion?

Soulflower

Yall can call it slut shaming, slut hating, slut bashing... I dont care lol

I think she acts like a slut on stage and in her videos and I think she purposely capitalizes off of it.

Side Note: I am not calling HER a slut specifically (because I do not know her personally) but yes she does act like that on stage and in her music videos.

I think that is all she obviously wants to be seen as: "sex symbol" and that is fine I just wish she would present that in a more creative way.

Any descent person with self- respect would not display their ass like that in a video or pose half naked in their video just for a quick buck. You can still sell sexuality without doing that and even if you are I just think it should be at least more artistic.

For instance, Madonna did the same thing in the 90s but it was artistic and creative. It told a story and had a overall message.


I don't see anything wrong selling sexuality but as long as it is done in a creative and artistic way.



With Beyonce, its the same old sex kitten act but its not done in a creative or artistic way. It does not tell a story or has deeper meaning behind it.

She is suppose to be an artist. She is a singer and even if she wanted to sell sex in all her music I think it should have some artistic merit behind it.

Not just her laying half naked on the floor singing "I want to be the kinda girl you like" in every single video.

Because to me what that shows is, she is simply capitalizing off a easy money making market (the sex market) in order to compensate for her bland music.


Paritian is not about sexual empowerment. I am tired of people making her silly songs deeper than what they are.

Are Rihanna sexual songs empowerment as well?

How about Miley's?

Because I am tired of this double standard with Beyonce.

I think the meaning in the song is a negative message especially for young girls and young women. It teaches girls that you have to be submissive to men and that "you should be the kinda girl they like" Really Beyonce? That is all you want to be? I just personally feel like that sends a bad message to this generation especially the females that listen to this crap and think that is what they should be.

I especially take that personally since I am apart of this generation

Young women think they should show their ass and be the kinda woman MEN want them to be in order to be valued because of silly corporate songs like this not realizing these singers do not give a damn about them and just care about money.


ONCE AGAIN, Janelle Monae is a better role model and overall better artist.

It is a shame how in order to be successful as a pop female singer you have to show your ass and sell your soul. I am glad that there are some with dignity and self-respect.

butthead aka 216

just wanna add i do agree with part of what realtalk has said despite not readin much of this thread. beyonce has always had a weird double standard. act like a sex kitten on stage but is revered for it and is 'empowering' and stuff... lol @ slut shaming

Soulflower

I see your point ......but he is technically being snubbed if he is not being credited as the first to do it.

Once again,

Beyonce had the Superbowl for promotion
Beyonce had a world wide tour
Beyonce had the pepsi commercials
Beyonce singed at the inauguration

So she had more commercial promotion than Bowie so naturally she initially would sell more but it does not change that he was the first.

I think his sells are more impressive being he had NO promotion AT ALL.

djchameleon

having singles on the radio and music videos before and album drops counts as promotion for an upcoming album whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

__________________

Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes.

Soulflower

And you think doing the Superbowl, having a world wide tour, having pepsi commercials, singing at the inauguration isn't?

Bowie did not release an official date for his albums. He dropped those singles out of the blue. It had been 10 years since he had released an album and he was not in the public eye promoting anything.