Necromancer

I would take Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson over the Beatles in the studio any day.

YorkeDaddy

more of his innovations to me are with the music videos, performance, and dance type of things to me. at least an interesting argument can be made for Jackson, unlike the majority of ridiculous answers in this thread like ****ing Bjork

and then they took those influences and actually used them in interesting, innovative ways by combining them with rock music. gotta love the sitar.

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Soulflower

Same!


But see I can go on youtube and find demos that Michael had made at his house before the demos even got to Quincy.

The demos are not that much different from Quincy finishes.

I think people give Quincy a little bit to much credit especially since Michael wrote all the songs himself and came up with the bass lines and rhythms in his head.

Quincy did not do that, he just put the music together but he did not come up with those rhythms.

I think MJ is really underrated as a songwriter and producer.

Most people dont even know Michael wrote most of his pop songs HIMSELF

ex. Wanna Be Startin Something, Billie Jean, Beat It, The Girl Is Mine Smooth Criminal, Dirty Diana, The Way You Make Me Feel, etc'

He also produce alot of them too

He also wrote alot of the songs he did with his brothers too.


He was not just an entertainer, he was every bit of an artist as well.

Janszoon

I have to say I'm finding it incredibly hard to come up with a single answer to the OP. When you start thinking about this question I think it's easy to get hung up on people who were influential, but that isn't necessarily an indicator of who is the most innovative person out there. Innovation doesn't always translate into influence. Which brings me to one possible contender for me: Harry Partch. The guy created his own weird-ass instruments to play his weird-ass music. Hell, he even came up with his own scales and his own notes! I think he at least warrants a mention in a "most innovative" discussion.

Here's what he was doing in 1952:

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NO.

I haven't heard Frank Zappa's name yet but I consider him to be extremely innovative with sound. Sure he took what Hendrix started and ran with it, but there weren't many more eclectic albums then Mr Zappa's.

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Necromancer

It was more of what Jackson learned in the studio by recording with Quincy Jones the same can be said with Barry Gordy as well.

Soulflower

I think Michael definitely learned alot from Berry Gordy and Quincy, Berry Gordy especially. By the time Michael collaborated with Quincy he had already been in the industry for over a decade and had written songs while with the "The Jacksons"
He learned alot from Stevie Wonder as well (in the songwriting department)

I just think people cite Quincy for coming up with the instrumentation for alot of Michaels music that Michael actually came up with himself.

Michael used real instruments that HE played in his demos at his house before he gave his demos to Quincy and these demos sound EXACTLY like Quincy finishes.



I just dont see how someone could give Quincy all the credit when Michael came up with all the beats and rhythms in his head and Quincy just put it together.

I am not trying to minimize Quincy's role but I think he gets undeserving credit for coming up with songwriting and rhythms that Michael came up with himself.

There was alot of friction between him and MJ during BAD because of this

I respect Quincy and I think he is a genius but he gets a little bit to much for Michaels works that he did all himself.

I think they are both geniuses

dca

this is a good shout, probably was in a few ways. Zappa was a true maverick.

someone else who's name hasn't come up is Sun RA. he was on a different level

people arguing Michael Jackson is an innovator...is he? what did he innovate? remember things like dancing ability (he definitely didn't invent the moonwalk btw), songwriting skills, cultural mass appeal, record sales, and having a really great team of image stylists does not constitute 'innovation'... you could be in the top tier worldwide at all those things and still not be an innovator

Soulflower

^See post #41

Frownland

Forgot about Partch, he's pretty great. I'm still unable to wrap my head around just intonation (playingwise, that is, I love listening to it) because of the notes not being even. With Schoenberg and others who went beyond the 12 note music, there was still an even interval between notes; it's not so with Partch's 43 tone scale.

Also saw Stockhausen earlier in this thread. I think he would be #2 on my list of innovation behind Cage, who I've already mentioned in this thread.

As far as Michael Jackson is concerned, he was innovative in some ways as realtalk pointed out. However, so many other artists push him out of the running for the most innovative. The Beatles had a big effect on music, but I don't consider that innovation if they're recycling old ideas.

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