What makes a tune in tune?

[Mr. Charlie]

This is something I regularly ponder, especially when I'm on psychedelics.

Music is sound. Sound is waves. But what makes a tune a tune and not just noise? How is it that the whole species agrees (knows even) when something is out of tune, when something is just noise?

I haven't studied music so maybe I'm being stupid and the answer is obvious.

Anyone?

[Burning Down]

I have studied this through music cognition work and research projects, and the simplest explanation is that music is just organized noise. I'd go into more detail but I'm on my phone!

[Plankton]

Originally Posted by Burning Down

I have studied this through music cognition work and research projects, and the simplest explanation is that music is just organized noise. I'd go into more detail but I'm on my phone!

Art of Noise had a tune with that lyric in it, but dam if I can't remember what song it was.

Crap, this is gonna bother me all day now.

[Mr. Charlie]

What a lazy answer!

You've studied music, you can put my mind at ease, and you don't. My my...

[Burning Down]

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

What a lazy answer!

You've studied music, you can put my mind at ease, and you don't. My my...

I will, I promise!

[Mr. Charlie]

Haha. No worries.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

This is something I regularly ponder, especially when I'm on psychedelics.

Music is sound. Sound is waves. But what makes a tune a tune and not just noise? How is it that the whole species agrees (knows even) when something is out of tune, when something is just noise?

I haven't studied music so maybe I'm being stupid and the answer is obvious.

Anyone?

I would say that it's in the eye of the creator rather than that of the beholder to decide whether or not something is music. When something's released and people disregard it as "noise" and not music are closeminded, in my opinion. Sure, it may be bad in your eyes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as music.

Also, the idea of something being in and out of tune is relative to what music you grow up on. The quarter step usage in Indian music would be considered quite out of tune in regards to Western music, for example. Some people are even intentionally out of tune, it can aid in whatever they're trying to convey be it eeriness, melancholy, or disorientation. Take Jandek for example


There's also the idea that music can exist without a performer, which can be hard for some to wrap their head around. John Cage discusses it well

[Mr. Charlie]

Originally Posted by Frownland

I would say that it's in the eye of the creator rather than that of the beholder to decide whether or not something is music. When something's released and people disregard it as "noise" and not music are closeminded, in my opinion. Sure, it may be bad in your eyes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as music.

Also, the idea of something being in and out of tune is relative to what music you grow up on. The quarter step usage in Indian music would be considered quite out of tune in regards to Western music, for example. Some people are even intentionally out of tune, it can aid in whatever they're trying to convey be it eeriness, melancholy, or disorientation. Take Jandek for example


There's also the idea that music can exist without a performer, which can be hard for some to wrap their head around. John Cage discusses it well

Good John Cage video, very interesting.

I wanna point out I wasn't talking about music being good or bad. I've never heard a released piece of music and thought to myself 'that's not music'. Whether I hear music I like or music I don't like, I identify it as music and I think we all do. And it's precisely that which I find strange - that the whole human species has an inbuilt music detector.

I'll give you an example. I spent some time with my 20 month old niece recently and one day, on hearing Mumford and Sons on the radio, she broke into dance. Nobody showed her how to dance, nobody encouraged her to dance, I doubt she has any idea what music is or what a tune is or what the notion of being in tune means. But the point is she didn't dance earlier in the day to the sound of rainfall, or the sound of the soup bubbling in the pan, or the sound of the vacuum cleaner, or the sound of clanging plates and dishes during the washing up. She only reacted to the music, not to the hundreds of other noises she encountered. It was as if she had an innate ability, knowledge even, to distinguish music from noise and appreciate it. And I think we all do.

[Rjinn]

Well of course we can distinguish noise from music. You hear drilling from a construction site that's noise. You hear paper flapping in the air that's noise. You hear chalk grinding on the black board that's noise. But when you hear intentional noisy sounds that are put together with some sort of meaning, convey something or tell a story, well that's art. And music is pretty much sound art.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Rjinn

Well of course we can distinguish noise from music. You hear drilling from a construction site that's noise. You hear paper flapping in the air that's noise. You hear chalk grinding on the black board that's noise. But when you hear intentional noisy sounds that are put together with some sort of meaning, convey something or tell a story, well that's art. And music is pretty much sound art.

I highly doubt that his niece would dance to some avant garde piece of different noises strung together just because it is art.