What makes a tune in tune?

Mr. Charlie · 11-06-2013, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I would say that it's in the eye of the creator rather than that of the beholder to decide whether or not something is music. When something's released and people disregard it as "noise" and not music are closeminded, in my opinion. Sure, it may be bad in your eyes, but that doesn't mean it doesn't qualify as music.

Also, the idea of something being in and out of tune is relative to what music you grow up on. The quarter step usage in Indian music would be considered quite out of tune in regards to Western music, for example. Some people are even intentionally out of tune, it can aid in whatever they're trying to convey be it eeriness, melancholy, or disorientation. Take Jandek for example

There's also the idea that music can exist without a performer, which can be hard for some to wrap their head around. John Cage discusses it well

Good John Cage video, very interesting.

I wanna point out I wasn't talking about music being good or bad. I've never heard a released piece of music and thought to myself 'that's not music'. Whether I hear music I like or music I don't like, I identify it as music and I think we all do. And it's precisely that which I find strange - that the whole human species has an inbuilt music detector.

I'll give you an example. I spent some time with my 20 month old niece recently and one day, on hearing Mumford and Sons on the radio, she broke into dance. Nobody showed her how to dance, nobody encouraged her to dance, I doubt she has any idea what music is or what a tune is or what the notion of being in tune means. But the point is she didn't dance earlier in the day to the sound of rainfall, or the sound of the soup bubbling in the pan, or the sound of the vacuum cleaner, or the sound of clanging plates and dishes during the washing up. She only reacted to the music, not to the hundreds of other noises she encountered. It was as if she had an innate ability, knowledge even, to distinguish music from noise and appreciate it. And I think we all do.

Rjinn · 11-06-2013, 07:34 AM

Well of course we can distinguish noise from music. You hear drilling from a construction site that's noise. You hear paper flapping in the air that's noise. You hear chalk grinding on the black board that's noise. But when you hear intentional noisy sounds that are put together with some sort of meaning, convey something or tell a story, well that's art. And music is pretty much sound art.

djchameleon · 11-06-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rjinn

Well of course we can distinguish noise from music. You hear drilling from a construction site that's noise. You hear paper flapping in the air that's noise. You hear chalk grinding on the black board that's noise. But when you hear intentional noisy sounds that are put together with some sort of meaning, convey something or tell a story, well that's art. And music is pretty much sound art.

I highly doubt that his niece would dance to some avant garde piece of different noises strung together just because it is art.

Mr. Charlie · 11-06-2013, 07:51 AM

Maybe it's down to the regular and steady thud-thud-thud of our mother's heartbeat as we're developing in the womb? Maybe that's why humans just naturally appreciate ordered and organised noise or music. I dunno. It's intreaguing.

Rjinn · 11-06-2013, 07:53 AM

Not dancing to music doesn't make it any less music. Children pretty much respond to the most accessible thing to them. I sure as hell would not have danced to Bob Dylan as a 3 year old.

djchameleon · 11-06-2013, 08:28 AM

Bob Dylan doesn't just produce random noise though and tries to pass it off as music.

**Janszoon** · 11-06-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werda

All about the hook IMO!

In some forms of music, sure, but certainly not in all music.

djchameleon · 11-06-2013, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

In some forms of music, sure, but certainly not in all music.

You can tell the main type of music a person listens to by that response.

Rjinn · 11-06-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

Bob Dylan doesn't just produce random noise though and tries to pass it off as music.

There is a difference between random noises and noise creativity. Noise was established by art movements, experimenting with unconventional instruments which developed its aesthetics, and has established to be a musical resource. If you don't consider it music, well that's your prerogative. But I consider sound art music.

I knew a whole bunch of guys who didn't consider rap music and just "a whole bunch of talking." From the way I see it, if somebody calls themselves a music artist and creates music in whatever shape or form. I consider it music. Noise, tones, melodies, or goat screaming. Instead of sticking to the conventional ideas of what music is.

Mr. Charlie · 11-06-2013, 09:55 AM

So would you consider, say, the sound of a river trickling over rocks, or the sound of the wind through a grove of trees in their natural environment (ie you're there listening to it live) as music? Or does it only become music to you when someone records it?

11-06-2013, 07:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
Rjinn The Aerosol in your Soul Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New South Wales, Australia Posts: 1,546	Well of course we can distinguish noise from music. You hear drilling from a construction site that's noise. You hear paper flapping in the air that's noise. You hear chalk grinding on the black board that's noise. But when you hear intentional noisy sounds that are put together with some sort of meaning, convey something or tell a story, well that's art. And music is pretty much sound art. __________________ last.fm

11-06-2013, 07:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
Rjinn The Aerosol in your Soul Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New South Wales, Australia Posts: 1,546	Not dancing to music doesn't make it any less music. Children pretty much respond to the most accessible thing to them. I sure as hell would not have danced to Bob Dylan as a 3 year old. __________________ last.fm

11-06-2013, 07:51 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	Maybe it's down to the regular and steady thud-thud-thud of our mother's heartbeat as we're developing in the womb? Maybe that's why humans just naturally appreciate ordered and organised noise or music. I dunno. It's intreaguing.

11-06-2013, 09:55 AM	#20 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	So would you consider, say, the sound of a river trickling over rocks, or the sound of the wind through a grove of trees in their natural environment (ie you're there listening to it live) as music? Or does it only become music to you when someone records it?