Why are Classical musicians so pretentious?

JasonSomethi Ng · 09-01-2013, 12:56 AM

I'm a Classical musician, but the thing is, I never considered Classical music as the be all and end all of the art form, whereas a lot of other Classical musicians I've met seem to. All the music schools are now teaching avant-garde art music that doesn't make any of its graduates a buck. All the students are embarassed to write a major chord due to fear of lack of originality. It's preposterous.

I have posted a few pretty convetionally written yet original pieces on a site of mainly Classical musicians and all of them were met with negativity, such as "this sounds just like Hans Zimmer and I hate Zimmer, he's an untalented hack", or I would get long, long, LONG reviews that over analyze every note and state how they are not up to their artistic standards.

What do you guys feel about this. I just get so frustrated that so many Classically trained musicians have their heads up their butts.

The Sane Psycho · 09-01-2013, 01:35 AM

I sometimes feel the same way. I hate when they act superior to people who listen to popular music like Rock, Blues, Pop, Metal, etc.

CoolBec · 09-01-2013, 07:10 AM

I'm not sure I'd agree that "all" music schools are like that Jason. I didn't major in music in college (didn't care to go into the family business), but I've got a pretty strong classical background and I knew a lot of the students and faculty of the music department quite well. Not only was there an active jazz studies program, but many of the music majors played gigs and such to support themselves, so being a classical snob so to speak wasn't really a luxury they could afford.

Wherever it is that you're "posting" your work, I'd stay away from there. Sounds like a bunch of A-holes trying to impress everyone with their "superior knowledge." And if the school is really that bad you might want to consider a change. I don't think I could stomach an environment like that.

Key · 09-01-2013, 11:00 AM

Is it only classical musicians that are pretentious? Learning classical music is actually a huge part of being able to play top notch, so if anything, they deserve to be pretentious. A lot of people aren't classically trained.

Screen13 · 09-01-2013, 12:01 PM

Don't worry about a small group of people who think that their music is far superior to what you're creating. In fact, try to get your works on a better known platform like Soundcloud or Reverbnation where you might get a more supportive response. Unless if one creates for an Elitist audience, people who make music should try to get their work out to everyone - I think that Classical was the Pop and Prog of it's day to be honest, depending on what is created and that's a compliment (There's a lot of "Hooks" in very well known pieces and Extended Epics in Symphonies...cheesy comparison, maybe, but just trying to connect something). It seems that they want stuff that's the Music equivalent of "Preaching to the converted", and that's a blind alley.

Now to get back to the thread question...
To tell you the truth, Elitists are in almost every kind of music not just Classical, but it seems that I feel in that area of music some of those who have critical voices are pretentious (as if they think they were born to be teachers and know it all) just because they feel that their skills are worthy of riding a high horse that's too high to climb down from.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 09-01-2013, 12:22 PM

There's music sites that cater to all genres that really suck. I was at one that catered to folk and I'd have to say it's the worst forum on the internet. You post something and the response from half the people is: "You think you're smarter than everyone else? Well, I already knew all this 30 years ago so you're not so smart!" or "As soon as I saw the title I knew it was one of yours and all I could think was 'Oh god, here we go again!'" Of course they can't and don't explain why they then had to log on and read the whole thing and leave comments if they so hate everything you post.

Most people who come there don't stay very long and I just couldn't stand it anymore and had to leave. It became unbearable. And this was a forum of people in their 60s and 70s with grandchildren and they act like bratty 13 year olds. In fact, I've been in forums with a lot of teens who were far more polite and knowledgeable that that bunch of jokers.

So, it just depends on the forum. It's not the genre, it's that the forum attracts certain types and then they hang around and chase off everyone not like themselves. You try to stay thinking you won't let these a-ssholes chase you off but then one day you log in and realize it's just the same stupid s-hit from the same stupid people and what's the point? And you leave.

Trollheart · 09-01-2013, 03:46 PM

You can't post your music here yet, but if you send me a PM I'd be happy to review it for you. I like classical though I have no musical training, so perhaps an unbiased ear might give you better or more honest feedback?

Just offering: I keep a music journal here and I could feature it on that. Or not. Whatever you want.

Anyway, I agree with everyone else: don't listen to people who just want to prove how superior they are. They're in every field, and in every field they have one common trait: they love to tear down rather than build. So much easier.

14232949 · 09-01-2013, 03:49 PM

yo, here's my question. why don't classic musicians ever collaborate with normal artists? could make for some interesting and groundbreaking music.

CoolBec · 09-01-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankycaaant

yo, here's my question. why don't classic musicians ever collaborate with normal artists? could make for some interesting and groundbreaking music.

Happens all the time MC. Classical cellist Yo yo Ma has practically made a career of it.

~~Lord Larehip~~ · 09-01-2013, 04:39 PM

I have an Ofra Harnoy CD of Beatle songs.

And you know all those string sections you hear on all those old Motown hits--that's the DSO (Detroit Symphony Orchestra)

09-01-2013, 12:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
JasonSomethi Ng Groupie Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 12	Why are Classical musicians so pretentious? I'm a Classical musician, but the thing is, I never considered Classical music as the be all and end all of the art form, whereas a lot of other Classical musicians I've met seem to. All the music schools are now teaching avant-garde art music that doesn't make any of its graduates a buck. All the students are embarassed to write a major chord due to fear of lack of originality. It's preposterous. I have posted a few pretty convetionally written yet original pieces on a site of mainly Classical musicians and all of them were met with negativity, such as "this sounds just like Hans Zimmer and I hate Zimmer, he's an untalented hack", or I would get long, long, LONG reviews that over analyze every note and state how they are not up to their artistic standards. What do you guys feel about this. I just get so frustrated that so many Classically trained musicians have their heads up their butts.

09-01-2013, 07:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
CoolBec Psycho Hosebeast Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Southeast U.S. Posts: 122	I'm not sure I'd agree that "all" music schools are like that Jason. I didn't major in music in college (didn't care to go into the family business), but I've got a pretty strong classical background and I knew a lot of the students and faculty of the music department quite well. Not only was there an active jazz studies program, but many of the music majors played gigs and such to support themselves, so being a classical snob so to speak wasn't really a luxury they could afford. Wherever it is that you're "posting" your work, I'd stay away from there. Sounds like a bunch of A-holes trying to impress everyone with their "superior knowledge." And if the school is really that bad you might want to consider a change. I don't think I could stomach an environment like that. __________________ *Bec's Poetry Corner* http://www.musicbanter.com/song-writ...ry-corner.html Last edited by CoolBec; 09-01-2013 at 11:18 AM.

09-01-2013, 12:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Screen13 Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,388	Don't worry about a small group of people who think that their music is far superior to what you're creating. In fact, try to get your works on a better known platform like Soundcloud or Reverbnation where you might get a more supportive response. Unless if one creates for an Elitist audience, people who make music should try to get their work out to everyone - I think that Classical was the Pop and Prog of it's day to be honest, depending on what is created and that's a compliment (There's a lot of "Hooks" in very well known pieces and Extended Epics in Symphonies...cheesy comparison, maybe, but just trying to connect something). It seems that they want stuff that's the Music equivalent of "Preaching to the converted", and that's a blind alley. Now to get back to the thread question... To tell you the truth, Elitists are in almost every kind of music not just Classical, but it seems that I feel in that area of music some of those who have critical voices are pretentious (as if they think they were born to be teachers and know it all) just because they feel that their skills are worthy of riding a high horse that's too high to climb down from. Last edited by Screen13; 09-01-2013 at 03:38 PM.

09-01-2013, 03:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	You can't post your music here yet, but if you send me a PM I'd be happy to review it for you. I like classical though I have no musical training, so perhaps an unbiased ear might give you better or more honest feedback? Just offering: I keep a music journal here and I could feature it on that. Or not. Whatever you want. Anyway, I agree with everyone else: don't listen to people who just want to prove how superior they are. They're in every field, and in every field they have one common trait: they love to tear down rather than build. So much easier. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

09-01-2013, 01:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
The Sane Psycho Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 299	I sometimes feel the same way. I hate when they act superior to people who listen to popular music like Rock, Blues, Pop, Metal, etc.

09-01-2013, 11:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153	Is it only classical musicians that are pretentious? Learning classical music is actually a huge part of being able to play top notch, so if anything, they deserve to be pretentious. A lot of people aren't classically trained.

09-01-2013, 12:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	There's music sites that cater to all genres that really suck. I was at one that catered to folk and I'd have to say it's the worst forum on the internet. You post something and the response from half the people is: "You think you're smarter than everyone else? Well, I already knew all this 30 years ago so you're not so smart!" or "As soon as I saw the title I knew it was one of yours and all I could think was 'Oh god, here we go again!'" Of course they can't and don't explain why they then had to log on and read the whole thing and leave comments if they so hate everything you post. Most people who come there don't stay very long and I just couldn't stand it anymore and had to leave. It became unbearable. And this was a forum of people in their 60s and 70s with grandchildren and they act like bratty 13 year olds. In fact, I've been in forums with a lot of teens who were far more polite and knowledgeable that that bunch of jokers. So, it just depends on the forum. It's not the genre, it's that the forum attracts certain types and then they hang around and chase off everyone not like themselves. You try to stay thinking you won't let these a-ssholes chase you off but then one day you log in and realize it's just the same stupid s-hit from the same stupid people and what's the point? And you leave.

09-01-2013, 03:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	yo, here's my question. why don't classic musicians ever collaborate with normal artists? could make for some interesting and groundbreaking music.

09-01-2013, 04:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
~~Lord Larehip~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 899	I have an Ofra Harnoy CD of Beatle songs. And you know all those string sections you hear on all those old Motown hits--that's the DSO (Detroit Symphony Orchestra)