Music and Subjectivity
 

While I was in the car with my boyfriend listening to Kanye's new album, "Yeezus" we spoke about the album and how dark it was.
We also talked about the kind of mood someone would generally be in when listening to it, since it's not an upbeat or fun album, but rather dark, deep, and a little bit depressing.

Sometimes I can't listen to music like that cause it brings down my mood, other times, if I'm calm or already upset, it kind of complements my emotions.

I know we, as music fans, talk about this all of the time. But I was kind of hoping to discuss this a little further, and talk about how music can change where we are in out feelings.

I know that whenever I'm upset, Hermione will send me a super happy song, and it brings me up, it's better than marinating in my feelings and bring myself even lower. Other times, when I'm upset, I'll scream a really loud and crazy song just to get out all of my negativity.

I have a lot of thoughts on this, just wanted to hear how everyone else feels.

For me, depressing songs are more beautiful. When something happens in minor, it gets my attention quicker than a major. Emotionally, I've always felt like I get something more out of sadder sounding songs. Angry would come second to that. Happy is probably the very last in the list.
It never really matters what emotional context I'm in. The emotional context of the music doesn't really map that way for me. It simply maps to a particular interest in the vibe. And sad is number 1 for me. :)

On the subject of music being subjective, it's interesting how different people's reactions can be to the same music. The Kanye West album you mention, for example, isn't something I'd ever even think to describe as dark or depressing. To me it's simply evocative of cruising around the city at night. It's weird how that is.

For the record, I think I've heard exactly 1 Kanye West song ever. All I remember was like.. a sample horn section? The underside of this rock is pretty great.

I totally get you with that. When I'm indifferent to everything, pop radio will be my fix, but certain songs will get me pulled back into the music I really love, which tends to be depressing.

One thing I've noticed; on pop radio, Rihanna's vocal tone is similar to Regina Spektor's. People can, ostensibly, sing a pitch perfect version of "Diamonds," but I've never heard anyone else capture that weird minor chord she hits on vocally. The, "Shine briiiiight..." bit. Listen to her, then listen to covers; it's really nuanced, ultimately, but bears mentioning.

Like:



and a very highly rated cover:



The covers always sound brighter, because possibly they build to the note different. I swear Rihanna starts with the minor chord, and merges it into the note the music suggests. It is partly her vocal tone, and partly her building into the way she builds.

This girl actually gets closer to the tone I'm referencing than the vast majority of covers. But she's still not quite captured the essence there. There's some over-singing going on, but she tries to stay true to the vocal melody, while falling short. There's definitely a minor tone in Rihanna's delivery that permeates throughout.

It's as nuanced as Rihanna can be, but it's there, and the covers can't capture it.

I think it's that way with most songs and covers, and that is subjective to the nth degree; people hear different things in that respect. For example; a cover I prefer to the original that a lot of people have been wont to **** upon:

Gotye - Somebody That I Used To Know


Ingrid Michaelson (Army of Three) - Somebody That I Used To Know



I prefer Ingrid's cover, even though she doesn't have the exceptional octave jump. I actually find hers more emotive.

Subjective. Fo sho.

Sure it is. He's married to Kim Kardashian.

I know that I've talked about this before but I have certain playlists for certain emotions and how I want to feel after listening to said playlist.

If I'm feeling a bit down in the dumps, I will just put on my Life playlist which consists of inspirational songs and it will help bring me out of the funk.

I think the only emotion that makes me want to listen to similar type songs instead of the opposite to change my mood would be if I'm feeling pissed off. I need to hear as much angry hard music as I can find and get my hands on. After awhile I become a bit numb to all of the angry music and it ends up calming me down.

That's great, maybe I'm just sensitive! Music can really bring me down if it's too dark!

It's definitely weird. I mean some songs weren't particularly dark but if you listened to the lyrics and the background in songs such as Blood on the Leaves, for example, you can hear the connections to slavery, lynching and more. So it's pretty dark as an idea overall.

I appreciate your analysis. :] In many cases, I like covers more than originals, but sometimes it's just because covers are changed to the point that i can directly sympathize with them. I don't know if you've ever heard "I Got Five on It" by Luniz, but it's about like weed and **** so it's not really my scene or my feel, but P Diddy covered it with some other artists, just the background really, which is the part I liked, and it's more about like sex. Not that sex is more my scene but I'd rather listen to it than the original. The P Diddy version is "Satisfy You."

I guess it really isn't a cover, but it's the same feel to the song with different lyrics, allowing me to identify with it in a different, and ultimately better.

Interesting! Maybe I'm just super affected by music! Lyrics, emotions, and more all affect me!

If I'm feeling down, sad or angry I usually listen to instrumental music or songs with as less vocals as possible. Jazz, surf, funk or rock instrumentals: whatever, I just don't want to hear singing til the mood starts to lift.

It is the opposite for me. If I am depressed or down, happy and upbeat songs piss me off. Music can change my mood, but only if I don't have a particular mood at the moment. Otherwise, I have to select music tthat fits my mood. Depressing music makes me feel better when I am depressed.
I too noticed that sad songs tend to be more "beautiful". I actually wrote a poem about it that I turned into the first song of a song cycle of sad poetry which I will call (translated) "Of Beauty and Weeping". The poem I wrote is called (translated to English) "The Beauty... I Am Blind with Weeping" which was inspired by this performance of "Der Leiermann"



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I can't deal with sad songs. I don't find them beautiful at all. They just bring my mood down even more in the same way that depressing movies will as well.

I find when im sad i tend to listen to sad music (mind you i think 90% of what i reguarly listen to would not be considered "happy" music anyways). I think it acts as a sort of purging effect. I can pretty much lay in bed, put on an RHP album, and then im good to go right after. I cant remember a time recently when i was really sad for longer than like an hour at one time but i still listen to depressing music every day.

I remember when I was younger, I blasted Limp Bizkit's "Breakstuff" when I felt angry (I had bad taste back then). Instead of purging my negative emotions, it seemed to amplify them. That's why it's better to listen to cheerful music when you feel down. For example, when I'm sad, I put on some power pop like The New Pornographers. That's not to say I don't like depressing stuff every once in a while. Nirvana made some pretty bleak songs, but I'd listen to them on a sunny day if the mood was right.

Music has a powerful effect on people, but people are ultimately in control of their feelings. It's similar to how violent movies don't necessarily make people violent. Most of the time, you can choose how to feel regardless of the situation. You can feel very angry if a person cuts you off on the freeway, or you can choose to let it slide. Music is art. It's meant to provoke emotional responses. But the emotions don't have to consume you.

I like the first part of what you said, but not everyone can control their emotions. Not everyone can let something slide. And while I can change my thoughts, or ignore what's upsetting me, music can set a different feel.

As you can see, there are some people here not affected by the music at all, and some who can't even listen to music that is too sad.

A lot of music, for me, brings me back to times when those songs were popular. I remember when I was having trouble at work, and on the way home I would hear to songs that had NOTHING to do with my trouble. The songs were like by Rick Ross and all of the popular rappers at the time. If those songs come on today, I don't think about whatever the song is talking about sometimes, but instead the moments I had at work. Sometimes I can't listen to those songs.

Other times, the songs or music really do affect me. Sometimes the lyrics are so happy or so depressing, it can literally change my mood. And I feel like there has to be some psychological study on this, I'm sure it's not just my personal experience.

Now subjectivity is a different thing. jans said that an album I found depressing and dark, he found chill. That's a matter of opinion, so I can't argue with that. especially since I love the album now and can listen to it alot.


ANYWAY TL;DR I HAVE FEELS AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE FEELS 2

Classical conditioning is an incredible thing.

Isn't it?

Yeah, my favourite albums transport me right back into whatever I was feeling at the time I listened to them the most, whether that's been a peak or a valley. I'm endlessly amazed by how our brains work like that.

You might enjoy Daniel Levitin's This is Your Brain on Music. It's very informative, though I don't agree with all of its theories. I should go re-read it now that I've got a better background in psychology.

If it's in e-book form, I will most definitely download it.

The section on music theory is tough to power through without a musical background, but it's necessary and totally worth it later.

I've taken music theory and advanced music theory in the past.
And I've played instruments forev.

So hopefully it gets me through it.

Oh, then you can skip like, the first third of the book.

Lmao. Thanks for the heads up!

I'm really bad at keeping up with my reading, so I'll let you know when I start!

If I listen to a happy song when I am really depressed, it will just make me more depressed. Don't ask me why.

Everyone is different!

How is it when you listen to depressing songs when you're depressed?

I completely understand this.

I often listen to music based on mood. I listen to a lot of music where all I want out of it is to be relaxed, and perhaps to put me in some kind of reflective mood. I listen to a lot of music many would consider sad, depressing etc. I listen to a lot of angry music, and a lot of music that I would class as more gloomy and perhaps dark. What I find though is I can respond to all of those types of music differently, depending on my current state of mind and any kind of personal or emotional connections I may have with the music.

I can relax to black metal, be uplifted by thrash metal and energised by space-rock. Theres not really a guaranteed emotional response to most albums I listen to. I wouldn't say I have a particularly extensive collection of typically "happy music" but I do have a few records I would use if thats what I wanted. However they may have the desired effect, but they may not. If I'm attempting to counter a bad, negative or angry mood with happy music, it could just irritate me.

I have also found myself listening to a lot of bands, albums, and mostly tracks that remind me of a friend of mine, over the last year since he passed away. I do this a lot now, whereas I didn't do it anywhere near as much before he died. These songs don't just remind me of him but of certain circles of friends, from school all the way through to adulthood, and so I have a lot of memories attached to these. One day I could find myself listening to these tracks and these artists and it may just depress me and make me sad, the next it could have me laughing hysterically (not that I have ever done this, especially not by myself and on public transport....cough) because it triggers a particularly funny memory or story that I had forgotten about or not thought of in a long time.

So, for me personally there are just so many factors. I don't think the music itself can guarantee a response from you, or the same response from you each time you listen to it.

On the "cerebral", "theoretical" level I am certain that music is *not* subjective. There *are* objectively valid standards of quality in music.

But in practice music sure *seems* to be subjective. There are people out there who adore music (or "music") which I despise. And it goes without saying that I cannot prove that my taste is superior.