The separation between the artist and his music.

edwardc77 · 04-16-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

As I said, no-one's perfect. Jerry Lee Lewis was a bloody borderline paedo, for god's sake! But nobody refuses to listen to his music. Glitter, on the other hand...

People can do things you deplore, disagree with, think are shameful but again --- not meaning to speak for the OP here but I think this is what is meant --- we're talking about serious crimes and racist-style views; perhaps not even views, as everyone's entitled to theirs. More an overt display of such, like, I dont know, flying swastikas at their gigs or simulating child porn on stage (I'm reaching here: I don't support/know of any artistes who do anything like this)...

Yes,you got my point more or less,for example I have mixed feelings for Jimmy Page,he looks like a cool humble guy and I love Led Zeppelin...but him having sex with a 14 year old when he was almost 30 is quite disturbing.

sopsych · 04-17-2013, 02:27 PM

Okay, maybe I didn't respond according to the purpose of the thread, but to me, adultery can be as bad as racism. Adultery technically is criminal in many places, and only in special cases is racism by itself highly criminal. It wouldn't bother if an artist I like turned out to privately hold racist views and isn't trying to spread them. Granted, none of the artists I like (sonically) is apt to be against people of my kind. By the way, Sarah Silverman claimed that Steve Perry told her a racist joke. Adultery in general disgusts me.

Trollheart · 04-17-2013, 05:02 PM

Seriously? You would rate adultery worse than racism? Strange view, to me. Other than the other half of the relationship (maybe two out of three) and any children if there are any, adultery hurts nobody. It's still wrong, but criminal? Unless you're talking about Sharia law, I don't see where adultery is a crime anywhere. Racism isn't either to be fair, but racism can lead to hate crime, and certainly hurts far more people than adultery does, or can.

Not that adultery isn't bad, but I'd definitely think it's on a lower level of scumbaggery than racism is.

sopsych · 04-17-2013, 11:22 PM

Adultery is technically still a crime in much of the United States. Enforcement still happens sometimes when it involves the military. Apparently adultery is at least technically criminal in most non-European nations. And decades ago the law was enforced almost everywhere because adultery is really bad, because it hurts individuals and society much more than people today realize - hint: the mental illness epidemic. Also, most people underestimate how common adultery is. (Do you know what your partner is doing right now?) Racism today, on the other hand, probably is harmless as practiced by most individuals (mainly thoughts they keep to themselves and their close associates). We're talking bad individuals, remember. This is way off-topic, so maybe it should end here.

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Adultery is technically still a crime in much of the United States. Enforcement still happens sometimes when it involves the military. Apparently adultery is at least technically criminal in most non-European nations. And decades ago the law was enforced almost everywhere because adultery is really bad, because it hurts individuals and society much more than people today realize - hint: the mental illness epidemic. Also, most people underestimate how common adultery is. (Do you know what your partner is doing right now?) Racism today, on the other hand, probably is harmless as practiced by most individuals (mainly thoughts they keep to themselves and their close associates). We're talking bad individuals, remember. This is way off-topic, so maybe it should end here.

Yeah, racism is "harmless".

Trollheart · 04-18-2013, 12:16 PM

No, I'm sorry but we can't leave it there. as you have this completely arse-about-face.

Leaving aside the criminality of adultery, you've ignored my point that the most people it hits is the number of people in the family/unit, probably a max of six maybe, certainly single figures in most cases. And it STOPS there. Racism, on the other hand, is insidious and spreads like a virus, can effect thousands if not millions of people, and leads to things like ethnic cleansing and wars: you have heard of a guy called Hitler, I assume?

I would certainly have less problem buying music from someone known to be an adulterer/ess than a racist. The first may be bad but it's a human failing and in any case there can be mitigating factors, such as a loveless or abusive relationship, whereas racism is just hate for hate's sake and far too pervasive to be as easily dismissed as you are trying to do.

The Batlord · 04-18-2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Adultery is technically still a crime in much of the United States.

So is smoking marijuana. Who cares? So, are you in some kinda cult or something?

scleaves · 04-18-2013, 06:04 PM

To the original post, I would probably think about it every once in awhile while listening to their music, but I would still listen to the music. It may be a double-standard, but everyone makes them and life is full of them.

**Frownland** · 04-18-2013, 06:45 PM

I don't let an artist's actions or views affect how I see their music. If it's good, I'll listen to it. If I found out that Captain Beefheart had been a pedophile and had victims in the thousands, he would still be my favourite artist, even though I wouldn't dare appreciate him as a person.

I wouldn't say that it's a double standard, either. Someone's work shouldn't be discredited because of their actions outside of their job.

**Janszoon** · 04-18-2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I don't let an artist's actions or views affect how I see their music. If it's good, I'll listen to it. If I found out that Captain Beefheart had been a pedophile and had victims in the thousands, he would still be my favourite artist, even though I wouldn't dare appreciate him as a person.

I wouldn't say that it's a double standard, either. Someone's work shouldn't be discredited because of their actions outside of their job.

I agree with this. I feel like art exists mostly apart from the artist, though I will admit the worse of a person they are the harder it tends to become for me to enjoy the music on its own terms. Also, while I may enjoy the art apart from the artist, if they're a really horrible person there's no way I'm going to let a single penny of my money find its way into their bank account.

04-17-2013, 02:27 PM	#22 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	Okay, maybe I didn't respond according to the purpose of the thread, but to me, adultery can be as bad as racism. Adultery technically is criminal in many places, and only in special cases is racism by itself highly criminal. It wouldn't bother if an artist I like turned out to privately hold racist views and isn't trying to spread them. Granted, none of the artists I like (sonically) is apt to be against people of my kind. By the way, Sarah Silverman claimed that Steve Perry told her a racist joke. Adultery in general disgusts me. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

04-17-2013, 05:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,994	Seriously? You would rate adultery worse than racism? Strange view, to me. Other than the other half of the relationship (maybe two out of three) and any children if there are any, adultery hurts nobody. It's still wrong, but criminal? Unless you're talking about Sharia law, I don't see where adultery is a crime anywhere. Racism isn't either to be fair, but racism can lead to hate crime, and certainly hurts far more people than adultery does, or can. Not that adultery isn't bad, but I'd definitely think it's on a lower level of scumbaggery than racism is. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

04-17-2013, 11:22 PM	#24 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	Adultery is technically still a crime in much of the United States. Enforcement still happens sometimes when it involves the military. Apparently adultery is at least technically criminal in most non-European nations. And decades ago the law was enforced almost everywhere because adultery is really bad, because it hurts individuals and society much more than people today realize - hint: the mental illness epidemic. Also, most people underestimate how common adultery is. (Do you know what your partner is doing right now?) Racism today, on the other hand, probably is harmless as practiced by most individuals (mainly thoughts they keep to themselves and their close associates). We're talking bad individuals, remember. This is way off-topic, so maybe it should end here. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

04-18-2013, 12:16 PM	#26 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,994	No, I'm sorry but we can't leave it there. as you have this completely arse-about-face. Leaving aside the criminality of adultery, you've ignored my point that the most people it hits is the number of people in the family/unit, probably a max of six maybe, certainly single figures in most cases. And it STOPS there. Racism, on the other hand, is insidious and spreads like a virus, can effect thousands if not millions of people, and leads to things like ethnic cleansing and wars: you have heard of a guy called Hitler, I assume? I would certainly have less problem buying music from someone known to be an adulterer/ess than a racist. The first may be bad but it's a human failing and in any case there can be mitigating factors, such as a loveless or abusive relationship, whereas racism is just hate for hate's sake and far too pervasive to be as easily dismissed as you are trying to do. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

04-18-2013, 06:45 PM	#29 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I don't let an artist's actions or views affect how I see their music. If it's good, I'll listen to it. If I found out that Captain Beefheart had been a pedophile and had victims in the thousands, he would still be my favourite artist, even though I wouldn't dare appreciate him as a person. I wouldn't say that it's a double standard, either. Someone's work shouldn't be discredited because of their actions outside of their job. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

04-18-2013, 06:04 PM	#28 (permalink)
scleaves Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Illinois, USA Posts: 76	To the original post, I would probably think about it every once in awhile while listening to their music, but I would still listen to the music. It may be a double-standard, but everyone makes them and life is full of them.