Right wing artists

katsy · 03-07-2013, 05:38 PM

Historically, music has always been a privilege. A form of art only the wealthy and noble could partake in creating and enjoying.

I would think that the access to greater sums of money will allow you to be more musically inclined. A musical hobby can get pricey.

I wanted to play the violin as a child, but we had no disposable income. When I became old enough for the public school concert band I wanted to play the trumpet. Well, that was a no go. Trumpets were not provided by the schools, but trombones were.

I hated that trombone. I played the hell out of it, but I always resented it. It was a symbol of poverty. (That was way off base, but I felt like responding to the poor/rich part of the post)

Trollheart · 03-08-2013, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

Historically, music has always been a privilege. A form of art only the wealthy and noble could partake in creating and enjoying.

Have to say I couldn't agree less. Wandering minstrels and singers in medieval times had little or no money but made their living with just a lute or even their voice. You don't need money to play music, never have. It's always been the simplest of pleasures; anyone can play if they have the talent or the time to learn.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 03-08-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsy

Historically, music has always been a privilege. A form of art only the wealthy and noble could partake in creating and enjoying.

I would think that the access to greater sums of money will allow you to be more musically inclined. A musical hobby can get pricey.

I wanted to play the violin as a child, but we had no disposable income. When I became old enough for the public school concert band I wanted to play the trumpet. Well, that was a no go. Trumpets were not provided by the schools, but trombones were.

I hated that trombone. I played the hell out of it, but I always resented it. It was a symbol of poverty. (That was way off base, but I felt like responding to the poor/rich part of the post)

Never heard of folk music or blues?

Paul Smeenus · 03-08-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Have to say I couldn't agree less. Wandering minstrels and singers in medieval times had little or no money but made their living with just a lute or even their voice. You don't need money to play music, never have. It's always been the simplest of pleasures; anyone can play if they have the talent or the time to learn.

Much of the music we're discussing in the early 21st century has roots in the slavery of the early/mid 19th century

Trollheart · 03-08-2013, 06:34 PM

Exactly. When it comes right down to it, all you really need is a wooden box and a stick and you have a drumkit. It's not Pearl, but it'll make the same sound. Music is the great leveller; anyone can play it if they want to and it needn't cost the earth. As Urban says, or intimates, the old blues masters usually only had a beat-up old guitar and their voice, and you certainly couldn't call any of them privileged.

Sorry Katsy, I like ya but that statement you made has to be one of the most ill-researched and just plain wrong I have ever encountered here. Music is not, and never has been, just a rich man's game. It's available to anyone who wants it, at often a cost of zero dollars, zero cents.

**Janszoon** · 03-08-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Exactly. When it comes right down to it, all you really need is a wooden box and a stick and you have a drumkit. It's not Pearl, but it'll make the same sound. Music is the great leveller; anyone can play it if they want to and it needn't cost the earth. As Urban says, or intimates, the old blues masters usually only had a beat-up old guitar and their voice, and you certainly couldn't call any of them privileged.

Sorry Katsy, I like ya but that statement you made has to be one of the most ill-researched and just plain wrong I have ever encountered here. Music is not, and never has been, just a rich man's game. It's available to anyone who wants it, at often a cost of zero dollars, zero cents.

Her statement is no more wrong than the OP's assertion that most musicians come from poverty.

Trollheart · 03-08-2013, 08:10 PM

It couldn't be more wrong, Jansz: "Historically music has always been for the rich"? Where did that come from? Even if she'd said "I think" but "Historically" makes it seem like she believes it's a fact, researched, and it just doesn't stand up to any examination, for at the very least the reasons I gave previously. It just makes no sense. You might as well say only rich people could write, or paint, which is just as off the beam as that statement.

I'm not trying to get at her, I just don't see where she got that assertion from. It's not an opinion as far as I can see, it's being offered as historical fact, and it most certainly is not. If anything, the reverse is true. The rich couldn't be bothered learning/playing music and historically the nobles, kings, landlords etc would engage bands or musicians to entertain them. These would often be from a much lower class. In fact, in many cultures musician was often ranked alongside beggar or pedlar in terms of social strata. It certainly was not a badge of nobility or wealth. Mozart, one of the most gifted musicians in history, died a pauper.

**Janszoon** · 03-08-2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

It couldn't be more wrong, Jansz: "Historically music has always been for the rich"? Where did that come from? Even if she'd said "I think" but "Historically" makes it seem like she believes it's a fact, researched, and it just doesn't stand up to any examination, for at the very least the reasons I gave previously. It just makes no sense. You might as well say only rich people could write, or paint, which is just as off the beam as that statement.

I'm not trying to get at her, I just don't see where she got that assertion from. It's not an opinion as far as I can see, it's being offered as historical fact, and it most certainly is not. If anything, the reverse is true. The rich couldn't be bothered learning/playing music and historically the nobles, kings, landlords etc would engage bands or musicians to entertain them. These would often be from a much lower class. In fact, in many cultures musician was often ranked alongside beggar or pedlar in terms of social strata. It certainly was not a badge of nobility or wealth. Mozart, one of the most gifted musicians in history, died a pauper.

I think you misunderstood my point, which was that the comment she was responding to is equally incorrect. The OP was talking about modern right-wingers and had made the claim that "most artists usually come from a poor background". To me that's a pretty baseless claim, especially in the context in modern times. As others have pointed out there are numerous examples of artists who come from privileged, or at least not poor, backgrounds. Are there some artists that come from poverty? Absolutely. But I don't think they're the majority.

Trollheart · 03-09-2013, 06:23 AM

Yeah, you're right. I misunderstood. I think I came from reading and posting in Exo's "serious advice" thread and was a little on-edge. Sorry about that.

Paul Smeenus · 03-09-2013, 09:04 AM

All musicians are descendents of a green, fifteen foot tall supra intelligent platypus named Frank Johnson. I think we can at least agree on that.

03-07-2013, 05:38 PM	#41 (permalink)
katsy Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 286	Historically, music has always been a privilege. A form of art only the wealthy and noble could partake in creating and enjoying. I would think that the access to greater sums of money will allow you to be more musically inclined. A musical hobby can get pricey. I wanted to play the violin as a child, but we had no disposable income. When I became old enough for the public school concert band I wanted to play the trumpet. Well, that was a no go. Trumpets were not provided by the schools, but trombones were. I hated that trombone. I played the hell out of it, but I always resented it. It was a symbol of poverty. (That was way off base, but I felt like responding to the poor/rich part of the post) __________________ Split the Lark-- and you'll find the Music - Emily Dickinson

03-08-2013, 06:34 PM	#45 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Exactly. When it comes right down to it, all you really need is a wooden box and a stick and you have a drumkit. It's not Pearl, but it'll make the same sound. Music is the great leveller; anyone can play it if they want to and it needn't cost the earth. As Urban says, or intimates, the old blues masters usually only had a beat-up old guitar and their voice, and you certainly couldn't call any of them privileged. Sorry Katsy, I like ya but that statement you made has to be one of the most ill-researched and just plain wrong I have ever encountered here. Music is not, and never has been, just a rich man's game. It's available to anyone who wants it, at often a cost of zero dollars, zero cents. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

03-08-2013, 08:10 PM	#47 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	It couldn't be more wrong, Jansz: "Historically music has always been for the rich"? Where did that come from? Even if she'd said "I think" but "Historically" makes it seem like she believes it's a fact, researched, and it just doesn't stand up to any examination, for at the very least the reasons I gave previously. It just makes no sense. You might as well say only rich people could write, or paint, which is just as off the beam as that statement. I'm not trying to get at her, I just don't see where she got that assertion from. It's not an opinion as far as I can see, it's being offered as historical fact, and it most certainly is not. If anything, the reverse is true. The rich couldn't be bothered learning/playing music and historically the nobles, kings, landlords etc would engage bands or musicians to entertain them. These would often be from a much lower class. In fact, in many cultures musician was often ranked alongside beggar or pedlar in terms of social strata. It certainly was not a badge of nobility or wealth. Mozart, one of the most gifted musicians in history, died a pauper. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

03-09-2013, 06:23 AM	#49 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Yeah, you're right. I misunderstood. I think I came from reading and posting in Exo's "serious advice" thread and was a little on-edge. Sorry about that. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

03-09-2013, 09:04 AM	#50 (permalink)
Paul Smeenus David Hasselhoff Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Back in Portland, OR Posts: 3,681	All musicians are descendents of a green, fifteen foot tall supra intelligent platypus named Frank Johnson. I think we can at least agree on that.