Janzsoon always beats me to the punch so don't feel bad about third place. Bitch.

Going into the semantics bit just briefly, if accepting that silence is music or that the "random" sounds from the environment that you can hear when there is no music playing is music - at it's core, that would render the word "music" entirely useless and redundant because it would then be synonymous with sound or even silence. It would have no special meaning of its own anymore.

I guess the rebuttal might be that when hearing silence in a situation where you are supposed to be listening to music creates a certain atmosphere that wouldn't exist in any other situation. Of course, I still think it's pretentious nonsense. I have to wonder if John Cage himself doesn't scratch his head and wonder why people are still going on and on about that "song" after all these years.

The above two posts are pretty much either side of the coin, and I've found myself on both sides at different times. I think I've finally decided to stick to the definition of music that the majority of people adhere to, which I believe is something humans specifically create to be tonally pleasant in some way. Even improvisation is performed with the intent to be enjoyable -- that includes pieces making heavy use of dissonance, as it is still enjoyed by its audience on some level.

Random sounds which occur by accident without the intent to be "music" are just sounds, pleasant thought they may be.

This is pretty much my working definition of music as well.

I'm a little confused. Do y'all consider John cage's work to be music, or don't you?

On the whole I do, but 4"33 isn't technically music by my definition because there isn't a deliberate production of sounds, only an absence of them leading to the audience noticing the ambient sounds created accidentally within the room. Again, it's a thought provoking message, but little else.

I do love his other work, however, and definitely consider it music.

:pimp:

How late were you? Loser. :p:

the the only rule is how you want to structure the song