Children's Music When Children

ribbons · 09-20-2012, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayfarer

holy **** i remember that now

And i bet you wish you didn't!!

VEGANGELICA · 09-23-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Probably I learned to read early. I was well ahead by first grade. That's an interesting possible connection between reading and music.

In an attempt to find out whether early readers tend not to gravitate toward children's music, I've been reading more about the relationship between preschoolers' musical and language abilities. I learned the following:

(1) Studies show that the brain areas involved with learning language overlap with the brain areas involved with learning musical skills such as distinguishing notes and differences in pitch (high vs. low). For example, consider our ability to recognize the sound "t" as being different from the sound "d." As children we have to learn that even if people all say the sound "t" slightly differently, they are still saying "t." This is similar to our learned ability to hear a sound as a specific note (even if the actual sound frequency may be slightly out of tune or may slur into another note).

(2) Studies show that listening to, singing, and interacting with nursery rhymes and children's songs (such as being asked to do physical activities relating to the music) enhances young children's ability to recognize letters and words in the sounds they hear, even without explicity teaching them reading skills.

(3) Evidence exists that preschool children who are more advanced at language skills are also more advanced in their musical skills:

From: Z. Peynirciog et al. (2002) "Phonological awareness and musical aptitude," Journal of Research in Reading, vol. 25, 68-80.
Phonological awareness and musical aptitude - Peynirciogˇlu - 2002 - Journal of Research in Reading - Wiley Online Library

"The relationship between phonological awareness and musical aptitude in pre-school [non-reading] children was examined. Children in the high musical aptitude group did much better on all tasks than those in the low musical aptitude group, showing that success in manipulating linguistic sounds was related to awareness of distinct musical sounds."

Because musical experiences enhance preschoolers' language and reading skills, and non-reading preschoolers who have high musical aptitude also have higher language skills, I think there is good support for the hypothesis that a preschooler who has developed strong language and reading skills may be beyond the stage of benefiting from children's music, and therefore may not gravitate toward children's music.

Here are some excerpts from articles I read/skimmed about the relationship between children's musical and language abilities, in case you want to read more:

Spoiler for Research on the relationship between music and language skill development:

I'd be curious to learn about Mozart's childhood reading skills and what he thought of children's music, given that "Mozart showed prodigious ability from his earliest childhood. Already competent on keyboard and violin, he composed from the age of five and performed before European royalty" (Wikipedia). My guess is he would have found children's music just a tad simplistic.

Mozart - The first five pieces he composed, age 5: KVs 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e-f

Mozart's first compositions - YouTube

* * * * *

Quote:

Originally Posted by ribbons

He is frank and thinks Kermit sings like Frank-enstein.

That was very insightful, actually! When I think about it, I do envision Frankenstein singing like a deeper-pitched Kermit.

I think it’s amazing that your son knew how to read by his 3rd birthday, Erica! He has inherited his mother’s keen mind. And I find it very difficult to believe you ever needed a tutor to learn anything. Your school was obviously misguided on that score. As you stated, you simply preferred to read the books you loved – like The Berenstein Bears and Bambi – and to do other things, rather than to read only what they wanted you to. My children were not as quick to read fluently as your child; they were sort of pre-reading by preschool (age 4). I did read to them a lot when they were toddlers, and we watched VHS tapes and DVDs on phonics which helped them to grasp letter sounds and combinations. The phonics exposure particularly was good preparation for them.

Thanks, Erica, but I’ll spare you the torture. These songs do not go over well in our home. (Although at times I think – or like to think! -- they are still secretly comforted by them. Whenever my daughter or son has a bad day, I’ll start singing those stupid songs and they’ll get strangely quiet with a faraway look . . . for a full 15 seconds!

)

Same situation here, Erica. Katy is very popular at my son’s school – even though he doesn’t care for her songs, the majority of the kids do. The boys think Katy and Taylor Swift and Beyonce are “hot”. My son likes Beyonce (an older woman!

). And he knew about Carly Rae Jepsen’s “Call Me Maybe” before I did – he says that if he hears the girls in his class sing that song one more time, he may go “crazy”.

All very true. And I think the repetition gives infants a sense of confidence in their own ability to “master” what is being learned.

Thanks for posting about this thesis, Erica. I found it online and will read it. I find it very intriguing because it’s interculturally based.

I never realized it was referred to as “Pat-a-Cake”, either! (always thought it was just “Patty Cake”) Speaking of colic, my daughter was colicky as a baby and I remember that every night around 9:00 p.m. she would start wailing and suffering terribly. [...] Then I read a book called “Healing Children Naturally” which stated that certain babies’ colicky symptoms might be due to drinking too much formula and effectively maintaining a protein/carbohydrate imbalance (resulting in painful constipation!). The book said the trick was to add a natural carbohydrate – in this case blackstrap molasses – to the formula to offset the protein excess. It worked like a charm. The teaspoon of blackstrap molasses had a pleasant caramelly taste when combined with the formula, and she took to it right away. “Colic” problem solved! Before my son's birth, I was worried he might have colic as well -- but fortunately he didn't. He usually slept through the night with few problems (a very easy baby luckily for me, and I still call him my "little Buddha".

)

Thank you, Liz, for your description of your kids' reading development, the struggle to find a solution to your daughter's colic, and the music that is popular at your son's elementary school. My son had also heard "Call Me Maybe" before I did!

About phonics: one thing I did do with my child that I think probably helped him learn to read early is that right from the start, I sang to him a phonics version of the alphabet: "ahh, buh, cuh, deh, ehh, fuh, geh, ha, ih, ya, ka, la, ma, na, etc." I think this helped him sound out words easily. I rarely sang the regular "ABC" song, because I felt it wouldn't help him learn to read as easily as a phonics alphabet.

I agree that infants and preschool children really yearn to learn skills and they glory in accomplishment, whether it is learning to roll over (my baby used to get so frustrated when he couldn't turn himself over all the way!), or figure out the mystery of books (my baby used to sit for very long periods of time paging through those hard-page children's books looking at all the pictures and letters).

Although my child never sang many children's songs when he was younger than five, he now warbles like a little bird almost constantly, humming and singing his own little songs that he makes up for himself. It is cute to hear him do this!

ribbons · 09-23-2012, 11:33 PM

Erica, I am sure that your singing the phonics version of the alphabet helped your son to advance in reading at such an early age. You are correct that simply singing or identifying the alphabet is insufficient – phonics is crucial in learning the formation of words and in the progression to reading.

Yes, babies and preschool kids really do glory in accomplishment! – they are no different than we are, really. To my mind, we are all just babies in adult bodies

and we really don’t change all that much from the way we were, emotionally and personality-wise, as children.

I can just picture your son trying so hard to roll over and sitting with his books for long periods of time, trying to figure the pictures and letters. He is so cute – and he has those great qualities of determination and discernment, which will serve him very well in life.

My children used to do the same in trying to “read” their children’s books, the hard-covered ones and also the squishy plastic kind. They would point to the pictures and words, sometimes flexing down so hard with their index fingers I was afraid they would break.

So your son warbles like a little bird and makes up his own songs?! That is so cute, Erica! Maybe he will grow to be a songwriter, like his Mom. Well, it seems that your son and I are “warblers” and my son and you are innate music video-set designers (see: "Disco Kermit"

).

Thanks for posting those latest studies – the evidence of a correlation between phonological and musical processing in early childhood is very compelling. The final sentence of the last study you quoted struck a chord, in my own experience:

"It is possible that the rhythmical exercises and the combination of rhythm and song lyrics in the children's play songs indirectly trained the ability to rhyme, segment, and blend."

It appears both of my children have a good rhythmic sense (or so they have been told graciously by others) and I’ve always believed this may have helped them to recognize patterns in reading and speech and to absorb and retain information.

almauro · 09-24-2012, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

I'd be curious to learn about Mozart's childhood reading skills and what he thought of children's music, given that "Mozart showed prodigious ability from his earliest childhood. Already competent on keyboard and violin, he composed from the age of five and performed before European royalty" (Wikipedia). My guess is he would have found children's music just a tad simplistic.

Mozart - The first five pieces he composed, age 5: KVs 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 1e-f

Mozart's first compositions - YouTube

* * * * *

What if Mozart's prodigy could be transferred to an individual at any early age through the playing of is music, are at least a small percentage of his ability. Wouldn't that be interesting? That could lead to a revolution in children's videos and the end of Baby Einstein-like videos like this, which are kind of simplistic in comparison and probably don't set a high enough standard.

09-23-2012, 11:33 PM	#43 (permalink)
ribbons Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,265	Erica, I am sure that your singing the phonics version of the alphabet helped your son to advance in reading at such an early age. You are correct that simply singing or identifying the alphabet is insufficient – phonics is crucial in learning the formation of words and in the progression to reading. Yes, babies and preschool kids really do glory in accomplishment! – they are no different than we are, really. To my mind, we are all just babies in adult bodies and we really don’t change all that much from the way we were, emotionally and personality-wise, as children. I can just picture your son trying so hard to roll over and sitting with his books for long periods of time, trying to figure the pictures and letters. He is so cute – and he has those great qualities of determination and discernment, which will serve him very well in life. My children used to do the same in trying to “read” their children’s books, the hard-covered ones and also the squishy plastic kind. They would point to the pictures and words, sometimes flexing down so hard with their index fingers I was afraid they would break. So your son warbles like a little bird and makes up his own songs?! That is so cute, Erica! Maybe he will grow to be a songwriter, like his Mom. Well, it seems that your son and I are “warblers” and my son and you are innate music video-set designers (see: "Disco Kermit" ). Thanks for posting those latest studies – the evidence of a correlation between phonological and musical processing in early childhood is very compelling. The final sentence of the last study you quoted struck a chord, in my own experience: "It is possible that the rhythmical exercises and the combination of rhythm and song lyrics in the children's play songs indirectly trained the ability to rhyme, segment, and blend." It appears both of my children have a good rhythmic sense (or so they have been told graciously by others) and I’ve always believed this may have helped them to recognize patterns in reading and speech and to absorb and retain information. Last edited by ribbons; 09-23-2012 at 11:54 PM.