Trollheart

I don't think I said that, as I've never been clear on what trip-hop is, and always lump it with hip-hop, which I'm sure is incorrect. Can you set me straight on that?
I'm aware of the irony, however I don't think it's the same thing at all. I know, from my own musical preferences, that I don't like those genres. There may be something in there that would surprise me, but it's not like I haven't heard them. OP is dismissing ANY music based on PURELY the length of the song, which I think is something totally different. Many people are not into certain genres or sub-genres, and I can of course accept and respect that, but someone dismissing ALL music purely because it's too long is something else again. Hey, look, I'm not Jackhammer, never will be. Keep that Grindcore away from me!


What would you like, or shall I surprise you?

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Janszoon

It was actually in the long-form bio you have linked to in profile. You were listing everything you consider "street music" and saying you didn't like any of it.

Anyway, to answer your question: "hip hop" technically, traditionally, refers to the culture which encompasses DJ-ing, rapping, breakdancing and graffiti, but more commonly is used as essentially a synonym for "rap music". Trip hop, while certainly influenced to some extent by hip hop, really doesn't have much in common with it. It's a type of downtempo electronica that has a kind of late night, noir-ish vibe and rarely involves rapping. There's actually a lot of it that's instrumental (though the following videos aren't). Here's an example of one of the most well-known trip hop songs, which you've probably heard before, "Teardrop" by Massive Attack:



And another fairly well-known example, "Overcome" by Tricky:




If you say so. I think it's pretty much the same thing though.


Surprise me with something I've never heard of.

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Trollheart

Okay, now you've got me interested. I DO like that "Teardrop", and if that's what's seen as trip-hop then I may indeed have misjudged that genre. I'll give the other one a listen once these guys stop hammering, sawing, drilling and grinding downstairs: can't hear myself think.

Oh wait. Here we go.

I want a doughnut.

Thanks, brain.

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VEGANGELICA

Thanks, Ki, for the 6+ minute songs you offered to try to show that they aren't necessarily boring or repetitive.

I definitely preferred the first two (post-rock?) shorter songs, "Spirits Stampede" by Pg.lost and "Worlds in Collision" by God is an Astronaut, to the last longer one, "Zenith," by A Swarm in the Sun.

I felt the best part of "Spirits Stampede" is at 4:30 when the music becomes more energetic. I feel they could have edited out some of the earlier part of the song to reach that latter section sooner, thereby shortening the song and not losing much of its content.

Similarly, I felt "Worlds in Collision" (my favorite of the three) could have been edited down without much loss of the song's feeling or content. I like its pleasant beat and a soothing sound, but it is fairly repetitive. My favorite part was at 6' when a quiet piano section starts.

Such atmospheric music is perhaps intended for those who want to be carried away by the music's tranquility, and so I can understand why many listeners wouldn't mind the songs lasting longer than 6'. I did like both songs; I just thought they could have been made shorter, which I would have preferred.

However, I didn't like the longer song "Zenith" by "A Swarm of the Sun" at all. The song had a louder, more intense instrumental section at 2:49, which was nice, except that it went on with almost no variation in its sound for over a minute (!) until 4:40. Then the song dwindled down at 5:40 and became very quiet. I became hopeful that they would let the song die a natural death at that point...but no, they kept the song on life support, barely alive, before finally revitalizing it with lyrics and a louder volume until pulling the plug five long minutes later.

I think "Zenith" would have been much more effective if it were shorter.

Not if I fall asleep listening to it!

I mean more generally the concept that I perceive behind the song. I'm not just referring to the meaning of the lyrics, but to the main purpose of the pattern of sound.

For example, in my view many songs want to establish a mood as a main goal. If I sense the mood in the first four minutes, then I don't need six more minutes of that mood. Other songs seem to emphasize the cleverness of the composer and so I feel the song serves primarily to showcase intellect (I'm thinking of some emotionless but complex music by Bach). Some songs strive to follow rules, others to break them, and still others to do both.

Figuring out what I feel the song is about underneath all the sound we hear is what I mean by figuring out the point of the song.

You're right that a long song (over 10 minutes long) can offer something new at the end that I would miss if I stop listening after 6 minutes, but my feeling is that if the new part is so important, then the artist should have introduced it earlier rather than make me sit through so many minutes before getting to it.

If the first 6 minutes are mesmerizing enough and I lose all sense of time, then I may make it to the last 4 minutes of the song without any reluctance. Yet even with classical music, where it can be complex enough to keep my attention, I tend to lose interest after 6 minutes. I've probably played 40 concertos in my life, and they are great fun to play, but I find most of them boring just to *listen* to.

Now I have (unfortunately)! I did feel it was much too long musically. I'm wondering if perhaps Iron Maiden were inspired by concertos to create their song with three movements (fast-slow-fast) tacked together by the long lyrics that tell the tale of the ancient mariner who learns (through punishment) to value and love the lives of other beings.

Perhaps, but I don't feel there is one "right" way to listen to music. I just may not be a "soaker."

Thanks, Mrd00d!

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TheBig3

the longer the better.

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Janszoon

You like them long and uncut, eh?

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Eyrothath

Well... Let's find out..


Avantasia - The Scarecrow - YouTube


Damnation Angels - Pride (The Warrior's Way) - YouTube


Celtic Legacy - Resurrection - YouTube

Nope, after listening to all 3, they sound pretty good to me..

Trollheart

I have to say, I find it weird, unsettling and clinical/cynical (take your pick) that you break down a song into minutes and seconds that way. ALmost like reducing it to its components, uncomfortably like dissection really. Do you really feel you can't just let go and enjoy a song, regardless of length, without analysing it to death?

I know I have done this in reviews, but that's towards a purpose, and never specific minutes and seconds. I write things like "In the third minute there's a nice piano solo that lasts about thirty seconds, then the mood changes and for the next two minutes it's harpsichordal music until minute six, where the vocals come back in" and so on.

I also find your quote above, about essentially "couldn't they get to the point sooner instead of making me wait all this time" or whatever to be really insulting to the band and very very arrogant. Do you think they wrote that song just for you? It's been proven here that there are few people who get so hung up on song lengths, so it's reasonable to assume that any band writing a song would not take into account that someone is counting down the time, analysing the music and shaking their head while looking at their stopwatch! Surely it's up to them as to where they choose to place the various parts of their songs, and not you or I? And surely also, to GET to the "good part", a mood, theme, pattern has to be established? I find part of the fun is getting to that mood, not tapping my fingers, waiting for the good bit.



No, still don't get it. I listen to music for enjoyment, and also to hear well-thought-out lyrics. I like it to move me, but I don't ever feel that someone is constructing a pattern I have to recognise. Maybe Geekoid would be more in tune with what you're talking about, more on your wavelength.

I assume you're aware it's based on the classic poem? Well, yes, a lot of metal music is loosely based on classical, that's always been the case.






I don't mean all this to sound confrontational or rude: I guess I just will never be able to see this from your side. It's totally alien to me to deconstruct a song (apart from for review purposes, as I mentioned) in order to be able to enjoy it, and length has no bearing on how I enjoy a song. I guess I'll just leave it at that, and let others have their say, if anyone wants to continue pursuing the topic with you.
(Climbing down...)

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Trollheart

Ok, now I've had a chance to hear that Tricky song. Yeah, it's okay (definitely not hip-hop: what a fool I am!) but didn't do a lot for me. I didn't hate it though, so maybe I'll look into more of this trip hop of which you speak. Or maybe not. Either way, thanks for sharing and for clarification of what the genre is. I had been wondering.

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TheBig3

yeah, and the more flute the better.

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