Racism/Sexism/ect in Music
 

*etc, (will edit when I've gathered enough posts)
Curious to hear some of MB's opinions on this topic.
Is it ever "excusable" for an artist to make such a song? Does it bring down the quality of the rest of their work?
When is it making a social statement through a racist/sexist...etc narrator and when isn't it? Ex: The Rolling Stones' "Brown Sugar."
What about the disparity in calling out violence & sexism in "gangsta rap" compared to bands like Guns N Roses (especially blaming increased violence on rap)?
What about songs like the Violent Femmes' "Black Girls" ?
I'm not too sure about any of this, it's something I started thinking about recently after reading a post at "stuff white people do" titled "listen to racist music" about "Brown Sugar." So, thoughts?
Sorry, first thread, lmk if I placed it wrong? :shycouch:

Very good first thread, and an intriguing question. I'm not familiar with gangsta rap, hip-hop or any of the other genres who seem to be more predisposed towards using racism or sexism in their lyrics, but I would just offer that it's not a new thing (as you point out): bands have been doing it for years --- which doesn't necessarily make it right --- and rock and metal would be another big culprit. I mean, not too many prog rock songs refer to "Girls with big tits" or whatever, unless you extend sexism to speciesism, in which case those guys REALLY have it in for dragons! :laughing:

Gotta think about this more, will post again. I'm sure there'll be plenty of conflicting replies.

Well done: exactly what we need in a thread: intelligent, well thought-out, bound to create debate and interesting.

And not, to my knowledge, done here before...

I think a lot of the time those accusations come from people failing to understand that a work of art dealing with offensive subject matter is not the same that as endorsing it.

What about the bands who are in fact racist, such as any white power groups.

There is a radio station online for aryan radio.

I become equally annoyed when it's 'etc' and not 'ect' ;)

I don't care and don't see it as any different than a band preaching some other moral/political stance.

For racism the three things that come to mind are Nazi Punk, National Socialist Black Metal, and good ol' Johnny Rebel.







I obviously don't agree with it, but they're free to make music about whatever they feel like.

Freedom of speech, and also artistic purposes would have to make me say that it doesn't have a negative impact. I think that everyone should look at Slayer, a band that does songs about the Holocaust and "blasphemous" material. Lombardo is a devout catholic. It's just music, and I think you have to approach it with an open mind.

David Alan Coe, who has done his fair share of racist music, actually has had black musicians, and I believe he has denied being racist.

Yeah he came up in my searches, and doesn't seem to espouse any sort of racist views. I think the ones that are said to be by him, aren't. I know some songs from Johnny Rebel are wrongly attributed to him.

Eh, he has songs where he uses the "n-word". See "****** Lover" & "Rails". Some retards think these songs are serious bsns.

I assumed Nigger Lover was one that was actually by Johnny Rebel. Mainly because it fits right in with the titles of a few of his other smash hits, like "Nigger, Nigger", "Who Likes a Nigger?", "Move Them Niggers North", and "Some Niggers Never Die (They Just Smell That Way)".

Ah, leave her alone Lee: it's her first thread! :)
(And she's one of my adoptees, too...) :pimp:

Sorry ;) I do like to whinge now and again!

I agree to the extent that almost all preachy bands are annoying and pretty much any band that puts the ideology before the music tends to suck. That said, bands pushing a racist/homophobic/sexist/etc. ideology have the additional crap-factor of being horrible people added into the mix, which makes them even worse.

:laughing: I just noticed that, I wrote this when I was a bit tired and I have a habit of switching letters when typing. I'll change it as soon as I get enough posts.

Also, yay, replies!

Slayer's songs about the Holocaust are purely "documentary" in nature, if you would care to look at the lyrics

the only step they took in endorsing it was naming their fanclub "Slatanic Wehrmacht"

as for the Satanism, they sound like "opinions" rather than forcing it down your throat

Well, that's a big reason I cannot stand Public Enemy. Why would I ever want to listen to a homophobic act? Even if they are considered "great" by the masses?

I don't get the "Brown Sugar" reference.
Why would someone think THAT song is racist?

I thought the same thing. I like asian girls. Why can't I write a song about that?

I was confused by that too, until I googled the lyrics. Take a look:

It's hardly the ode to a sexy black woman that I always assumed it was. I don't think Jagger was promoting racism but I do think he was trying to be edgy by writing about objectionable subject matter.

Oh! He mentions slavery...
So what.

I HATE when people act like if you make reference to the historical fact that was slavery, somehow you are condoning or promoting it.

Lets all pretend all the bad stuff in the history of the world never happened.

There are definite sexist/racist songs out there, but to include "Brown Sugar" among them is really pushing things a bit far imo.

Well, like I said, I don't think he's promoting racism in the song—in fact, I'm a fan of the song—I'm just answering your question about why someone would find it racist. And it's more than just "mentioning slavery", the whole subject of the song involves sexual torture of slaves. Even Jagger himself has said he has misgivings about the lyrics.

Damn. I never knew those were the lyrics. Wasn't this song on the radio?! Sounds to me it's supposed to be about a slave owner raping his slave. I'm assuming that with the upbeat nature of the song and the lyrics that almost sound like they're glorifying the rape that it's all supposed to be ironic. That song is actually pretty disturbing now. Awesome.

If you want a Rolling Stones song with questionable lyrics just go for Stray Cat Blues.

Because not listening to a homophobic band does.... what?

golden oldie

The song is about sex between slaves and owners. What is objectionable is slavery, but it isn't like he making any judgement on the wrongs of slavery but joint pointing out they had sex. Jagger could had made a moral statement and spoke against people in power coercing sex from others, but he didn't he was a horny man whore not a social moralist.

"Scarred old slaver" porbably means he has STD. When he sings "Hear him whip the women just around midnight." it's ambiguous it could mean he did whipped with a whip or maybe yada yada yada. It could he meant the same thing that the Dazz band meant by "whip" in Let It Whip.

Well, not listening to them helps not to spike my blood pressure. :)

Seriously? Just listening to people whom you know to have different opinions bugs you that much?

No. There's a difference between differing views and singing about said different views.

I don't listen to Public Enemy for the same reason I don't listen to Prussian Blue or Elephant Man. Why would I, as a practicing homosexual, want to listen to an artist who legitimately thinks I should be killed?

Your logic makes no sense.

Public Enemy are white supremacists who make unbearably boring music?

Exactly. :D

--

But in all seriousness, I just can't support or enjoy music that's personally attacking me or sending across a message that I believe is 100% WRONG. Public Enemy fall under that category for homophobic lyrics and public statements. And if you cannot comprehend that, you head needs adjusting.

So, what if a group makes statements you disagree with but doesnt put such messages in the music?

You seemed to hint that this would be unacceptable:

does anybody really listen to Prussian Blue?.....i think even white supremacists find them to be a joke and annoying

Depends on the statement. Janet Jackson endorsed fur, which I disagree with, but I still listen to her music regularly.

But if, say, Torquil Campbell were to come out saying he hates gay people and wants them to be shot, I would erase him from my music library. Public Enemy made it very clear how they feel. I don't think they necessarily want me as a listener anyway.

We're very influenced by the music we listen to, and it really says a lot about the people we are. And I don't want any messages in the stuff I listen to that I don't agree with. I don't really see the point in trying to choke down a Public Enemy album.

Convince me of otherwise. Why should I listen to them in spite of their homophobic attitudes and lyrics?

How about because they don't actually have homophobic lyrics? Listen to It Takes a Nation of Millions..., their breakthrough album, and see if you can find any homophobic lyrics. As far as I know there aren't any.

"'It only brings agony, ask James Cagney / He beat up on a guy when he found he was a f*gney / Cagney is a favorite he is my boy"

They, after doing some research, seem to have far more anti-semitic content. Lovely.

^Which is not from the album I was referring to.

Also not on the album I am referring to.