Prog Music v. Jam Music

TheBig3 · 05-15-2012, 03:06 PM

Would you say that Prog and Jam are the same thing? Do they subscribe to the same ethos even if bands we call Prog or Jam doesn't sound like one another?

If they aren't the same thing, what differentiates one genre from another? Are we splitting hairs with artificial distinctions or is there a real division between the genres that isn't as simple as aesthetic appeal?

Edit: Some conversation starters...

Are Phish and King Crimson two sides of the same coin?

Does the String Cheese Incident have the same writing model as Tool?

Does Umphree's McGee secretly listen to Yes? Does Porcupine Tree steal tricks from moe.?

Unknown Soldier · 05-15-2012, 03:31 PM

A very good thread and a good question. When I think of prog I do think of innovation and when I think of jam I think improvisation (I'm not saying that jam bands aren't creative). The best place to start would be the late 1960s here, as San Francisco had some of the pivotal Jam style bands of the time the Grateful Dead, Moby Grape and Quicksilver Messenger Service etc The east coast had the Allman Brothers Band. Whilst the groundwork for prog was being laid down by the likes of the Moody Blues and Procul Harum in the UK. There are some drastic differences but there are also some great similiarities as well, which hopefully can be debated over.

Mrd00d · 05-15-2012, 03:35 PM

Well, those are interesting questions and due to time constraints, I'm just going to say:

Probably not

Probably not

Maybe

Maybe

and see where the others views on this go. I'll think on it today and get back to you. They are very unique questions and I almost feel like it could have been asked in jest but I do look forward to reading the discussion.

cledussnow · 05-15-2012, 03:53 PM

IMO the biigest difference in the two is while jam just jams for the jam's sake, prog, at least in the beginning, was about making "artistcally relevant music". So most prog is more grandiose in nature, whereas jam bands just jam, they don't necessarily try to make a statement about the virtuoso players in the band they just make extended jams.

Mrd00d · 05-15-2012, 04:20 PM

That was well said Unknown Soldier and Cledussnow.

TheBig3 · 05-16-2012, 08:25 AM

But to those arguing that its bands just "jamming", I'd agree that there may be less improvisation in Prog, but Jam bands aren't just all noodling. I mean one-guy, sure. But that needs to be built on a structure of some sort.

Its jazzy, but it tends not to be littered with dissonant sound, and even jazz requires players to be relatively in key.

cLoCkWeRk · 05-16-2012, 08:51 AM

It shouldn't be a battle between the two. Both types of music are great in their own right.

TheBig3 · 05-16-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cLoCkWeRk

It shouldn't be a battle between the two. Both types of music are great in their own right.

How is it a battle?

**Janszoon** · 05-16-2012, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cLoCkWeRk

It shouldn't be a battle between the two. Both types of music are great in their own right.

Did you read the OP? This isn't a battle, just a conversation about the two styles' relationship to each other.

Anyway, on the topic: I think, while there is a lot of overlap, they're not the same thing. The big differentiator comes from the very core of these two styles I think, in that prog tends to lean in the direction of being very meticulously plotted music while jam music is, by it's very nature, improvisational. It's basically like the difference between classical music and jazz, which is kind of fitting since prog tends to be more classically influenced while jam is definitely more jazz influenced.

cledussnow · 05-16-2012, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

But to those arguing that its bands just "jamming", I'd agree that there may be less improvisation in Prog, but Jam bands aren't just all noodling. I mean one-guy, sure. But that needs to be built on a structure of some sort.

Its jazzy, but it tends not to be littered with dissonant sound, and even jazz requires players to be relatively in key.

I never mentioned "noodling". I didn't mean to imply that.

Let me put it this way: A band like Phish is WAY more like sitting around a campfire, or being at a party, whereas many of the Prog bands are more like being in a theater or some much more "proper" setting.

I don't know if that is any clearer really, but it's the best I could come up with...

05-15-2012, 03:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Prog Music v. Jam Music Would you say that Prog and Jam are the same thing? Do they subscribe to the same ethos even if bands we call Prog or Jam doesn't sound like one another? If they aren't the same thing, what differentiates one genre from another? Are we splitting hairs with artificial distinctions or is there a real division between the genres that isn't as simple as aesthetic appeal? Edit: Some conversation starters... Are Phish and King Crimson two sides of the same coin? Does the String Cheese Incident have the same writing model as Tool? Does Umphree's McGee secretly listen to Yes? Does Porcupine Tree steal tricks from moe.? __________________ I've moved to a new address

05-15-2012, 03:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mrd00d Stoned and Jammin' Out Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern California; Eugene, OR; mobile Posts: 1,602	Well, those are interesting questions and due to time constraints, I'm just going to say: Probably not Probably not Maybe Maybe and see where the others views on this go. I'll think on it today and get back to you. They are very unique questions and I almost feel like it could have been asked in jest but I do look forward to reading the discussion. __________________ Mrd00d's Last.fm

05-15-2012, 03:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
cledussnow Music Addict Join Date: May 2012 Location: North Alabama via New Orleans Posts: 149	IMO the biigest difference in the two is while jam just jams for the jam's sake, prog, at least in the beginning, was about making "artistcally relevant music". So most prog is more grandiose in nature, whereas jam bands just jam, they don't necessarily try to make a statement about the virtuoso players in the band they just make extended jams. Last edited by cledussnow; 05-15-2012 at 04:54 PM.

05-15-2012, 04:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mrd00d Stoned and Jammin' Out Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern California; Eugene, OR; mobile Posts: 1,602	That was well said Unknown Soldier and Cledussnow. __________________ Mrd00d's Last.fm

05-16-2012, 08:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	But to those arguing that its bands just "jamming", I'd agree that there may be less improvisation in Prog, but Jam bands aren't just all noodling. I mean one-guy, sure. But that needs to be built on a structure of some sort. Its jazzy, but it tends not to be littered with dissonant sound, and even jazz requires players to be relatively in key. __________________ I've moved to a new address

05-16-2012, 08:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
cLoCkWeRk Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Nestled in the North Carolina mountains. Posts: 65	It shouldn't be a battle between the two. Both types of music are great in their own right.