Genesis and American Psycho

midnight rain · 01-13-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMR

Agreed, I think the plot is blatantly obvious, and I never said that it was complex and ambiguous, just that it is often misunderstood by many people; however, I agree that most people here get the plot because most people here are above average intelligence

But, I do think that many other people dislike the film because they assume it is just a slasher film that negatively portrays women. The whole reason Mary Harron (a female) took on the film as director and screenwriter was because she wanted to better show the dark comedy/ satire side of the book and point out that the story is actually making fun of the men and not the women. She goes into this in detail on the extras section of the DVD.

To Franco Pepe Kalle, I like Collins era Genesis as well (I like Gabriel era better), but I like most of Genesis' 80's output as well, but it is more shallow than the 70's output... but sometimes shallow is good in my book.

I suppose that's true and I think you'll find that's the case with lots of art that is controversial. People don't try to look at the point that is being made, or don't get the satire of it, or even deliberately choose to ignore the point because then they can no longer use the art as a tool of protest.

They're just loooking for a scapegoat to promote their agenda. I do recall that the book when released got a lot of hate from women activists.

sopsych · 01-13-2012, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I don't think the guy has firm grasp on reality let alone music - I think it spoofs the opinions of Genesis fans rather than an insightful critique on Genesis that is to be taken seriously. There something eerie about it, the guy gives a emotionally detached monotonous speech about something he is suppose to be passionate about while playing a "romantic" song. He sounds very professional about inane stuff, I think the scene is set up to provide irony.

It reminds me of American Psycho (II) where the guy had this strange obsession with Huey Lewis and the News. I've seen APII with my cousin, because he's into to those slasher movies, (I don't care for them) and I came away just hating Huey Lewis from that one scene, I still have to look over my should when I hear a song by Huey Lewis and the News.

That's problem I have with the monologue - to some people, it turned Phil Collins into a joke. I've tried to discuss his music online and have had people disrupt the conversation with the Bateman quote.

RMR · 01-14-2012, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisdom

That's problem I have with the monologue - to some people, it turned Phil Collins into a joke. I've tried to discuss his music online and have had people disrupt the conversation with the Bateman quote.

That's a shame, and aside from his drumming, Collins has always been ragged on for unfounded reasons for his whole career. I think Collins was a phenomenal drummer for Genesis during the Gabriel era. I like his two vocal contributions to Genesis during the Gabriel era: "For Absent Friends" and "More Fool Me." I like his progressive output for Genesis after Gabriel: "A Trick of the Tail" and "Wind and Wuthering," and I like 80's Genesis and his 80's solo work.

Many people also knock him for his work on Disney movie soundtracks, but who cares-- the guy is incredibly talented. I for one like Gabriel era Genesis better than Collins era Genesis (as many people do), but doesn't mean you can't like Collins as well for different reasons.

sopsych · 01-14-2012, 11:09 AM

I think the monologue is most accurate in making "Sussudio" the character's favorite, since that's an inane (but catchy) pop song. But there's depth to the other songs, and it's not Phil's fault that Atlantic promoted his musically weaker songs or that the public preferred them. I can't excuse the later selling-out for Disney soundtracks.

RMR · 01-14-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisdom

I can't excuse the later selling-out for Disney soundtracks.

Why is making moving soundtracks for Disney after Collins' long career selling out? He's 61 years old and has kids, so I would assume it was fun for him.

I doubt he did for the money (he is certainly financially set), so my assumption is that he did it because he wanted to and thought it would be fun, which doesn't equal selling out in my book.

TheNiceGuy · 01-15-2012, 02:57 AM

I have never had much of a problem with Phil. His drumming was excellent during the majority of his time in Genesis and his singing can be very effective and sweet. At the same time his voice can get very annoying as his style is very straightforward and unchanging; listen to Invisible Touch and you'll see. Phil's writing can be a little schlocky at times (especially in later albums) but he is by no means the worst. Tony Banks butchered more late era Genesis songs with his songwriting then Phil did.

Anyway my point is Phil doesn't deserve all the vitriol he tends to receive.

Howard the Duck · 01-15-2012, 04:03 AM

the Patrick Bateman is talking out of his arse, really

not to say i don't like Collins-era Genesis nor do i dislike Collins solo, but "Sussudio"? really

i'd prefer he give a monologue on Genesis' Genesis (my fave Collins' era album) and talk about the funny Mexican accent Phil uses on "Illegal Alien" which is actually rather irritating

as for the film itself, i saw it ages ago and it didn't make much of an impression on me, unlike, say, something like Henry : Portrait of a Serial Killer - now that one is one heinous impression of a serial killer

Neapolitan · 01-15-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMR

You are correct, the scene is set up to provide irony-- or more accurately-- satire, and it is not to be an accurate analysis of the band, but rather of the Patrick Bateman character. The quote about Genesis has nothing to do with spoofing Genesis fans. In fact, the original author (Brett Easton Ellis) must of had imitate knowledge of Gabriel era Genesis to be able to include that section. The Genesis quote is used because it fits the Patrick Bateman character perfectly. He likes 80's genesis and doesn't understand 70's Genesis because he is a shallow character, so he associates more with the more shallow version of Genesis from the 80's, which he even admits... "I’ve been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn’t understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual"

American Psycho II has nothing to do with the book or the original; it was not even in the theaters. The Huey Lewis quote, as well as a similar Whitney Houston quote, along with the Genesis quote are all in the original.

All Patrick Bateman (the protagonist) is concerned with is how things seem on the surface... clothes, restaurants, music, and so on. Here's a great clip of interviews from the actors. Mary Harron, the director, does the best job of explaining the movie. Although there is a back plot of Bateman as serial killer, it is certainly not a slasher film, which is why the film is so misunderstood.

I guess one could say the arc of the stories involves "satire" and that particular scene employed "irony" - to a certain extent. Well, in a way you're right, the aim of the scene is not primarily aimed to spoof (want for a better word) Genesis fans, it does make lite the opinions of some people had towards Genesis. I don't know how knowledgeable the author, Brett Easton Ellis, is about the Peter Gabriel-era Genesis, he only has the character give a brief three/four word review "Too artsy, too intellectual..." but that has more to do with 70s vs 80s more than Phil vs Peter - era Genesis. While they did have a somewhat of hit with Follow You Follow Me in the 70s it wasn't until the 80s they became more successful on the charts with the help of videos/mtv and Phil's solo career. What makes some fans consider Genesis "arty" was that they made music for "art" sake and not for the sake of success like being on the Charts and doing it for the money, but on the other hand when one thinks about it they, even though they were not a Top 40 group in the 70s, they still did well on the album charts and with concert attendance - they were a successful 70s band. I wouldn't say the early Genesis was totally intellectual there were some nonsensical songs they recorded back then like The Attack of the Giant Hogweeds, and Harold the Barrel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisdom

That's problem I have with the monologue - to some people, it turned Phil Collins into a joke. I've tried to discuss his music online and have had people disrupt the conversation with the Bateman quote.

I agree, I don't know how other people feel about Phil, he is a favorite of my brother who is a drummer and considers Phil an excellent drummer, which means something in my opinion since he has some expertise in the matter, being the fact he is a drummer. I respect Phil's approach to drumming especially in the early years, and he continued to develop as drummer during the 70s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisdom

I think the monologue is most accurate in making "Sussudio" the character's favorite, since that's an inane (but catchy) pop song. But there's depth to the other songs, and it's not Phil's fault that Atlantic promoted his musically weaker songs or that the public preferred them. I can't excuse the later selling-out for Disney soundtracks.

Though in Phil Collins opinion, he didn't felt like he'd sold out when the (majority) his songs he wrote for the soundtrack were rejected by Disney.

01-15-2012, 02:57 AM	#16 (permalink)
TheNiceGuy Living under the bridge Join Date: May 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 317	I have never had much of a problem with Phil. His drumming was excellent during the majority of his time in Genesis and his singing can be very effective and sweet. At the same time his voice can get very annoying as his style is very straightforward and unchanging; listen to Invisible Touch and you'll see. Phil's writing can be a little schlocky at times (especially in later albums) but he is by no means the worst. Tony Banks butchered more late era Genesis songs with his songwriting then Phil did. Anyway my point is Phil doesn't deserve all the vitriol he tends to receive. __________________ My Music Review Blog-It's Only Rock 'n' Roll There is no Dark Side of the Moon really, matter of fact it's all dark...

01-14-2012, 11:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	I think the monologue is most accurate in making "Sussudio" the character's favorite, since that's an inane (but catchy) pop song. But there's depth to the other songs, and it's not Phil's fault that Atlantic promoted his musically weaker songs or that the public preferred them. I can't excuse the later selling-out for Disney soundtracks.