The Evolution of Music: Accident, or Adaptation?

Salami · 12-07-2011, 03:17 PM

What do you think about Susan Boyle? She's one of the less athletic people I can envisage, but can still sing well.

starrynight · 12-07-2011, 04:25 PM

In the recorded music age of course we often don't even know what a singer looks like at all. And there is the assumption here that there is only one voice style that people like, there are all kinds of different vocals which can be appreciated with enough familiarity.

duga · 12-07-2011, 04:42 PM

I think a lot of what you guys are saying is very interesting...but you are reaching way too far. None of this could be proven without someone else bringing up a ton of confounding factors. Look for the simplest explanation and then build off that.

Musical ability reflecting sexual fitness is something the modern world has come up with. Most ancient music was developed as a way to communicate with gods. For example...Native Americans and the rain dance. With that, it would be easy for me to say that music started its evolution in the fact that early humans recognized the purity in the patterns that I mentioned and felt it was mystical. Shamans and mystics who could more accurately channel these patterns were deemed...well...I guess more fit than the others. I bet early musical evolution can be traced to that.

starrynight · 12-07-2011, 04:56 PM

Yeh someone did mention sacred music. Our instinct to think beyond our world and to try and explain our existence goes way back millions of years too. The point that we probably took our musical ideas from nature and that aspects of nature were also worshiped probably links together as well.

sopsych · 12-07-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mighty Salami

What do you think about Susan Boyle? She's one of the less athletic people I can envisage, but can still sing well.

I anticipated the mention of her

She was not an ugly teenager. I have thought about the looks-voice thing for years and have yet to come up with an example of a great voice from a naturally ugly person.

**Janszoon** · 12-07-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisdom

I anticipated the mention of her

She was not an ugly teenager. I have thought about the looks-voice thing for years and have yet to come up with an example of a great voice from a naturally ugly person.

Are you sure about that?

sopsych · 12-07-2011, 11:59 PM

I saw that before. Certainly not repulsive and with some similarities to a female singer probably considered pretty by many.
Alannah Myles Pic - Image of Alannah Myles - AllStarPics.Net

Mrd00d · 12-08-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIRIUSB

I might say that all music is sound, but not all sound is music. Music being sound & silence organized in time and space.

Quote:
*1"We have basically two sounds, they are either Harmonious or Chaotic. Examples of Harmonious sounds include the human voice, vibrating strings, lawn mowers, jet engines, jack hammers, cars and fans. Examples of Chaotic sounds include crumpling paper, blowing leaves, sneezes, the background conversational din in a restaurant and firecrackers."
Quote:
*2"The Fibonacci sequence is a mathematical ratio which generates the classic spiral found in Nature / Ordered Universe. It is evident in many things such as, nautilus shells, the growth pattern of thorns on a rose, DaVinci's paintings and drawings, the pyramids and even sound. The distances between the overtones of a note progress and change within the same ratio as that of the Fibonacci sequence. The Harmonic Overtone Series unfolds exactly like the Fibonacci sequence/Golden Mean (1 2 3 5 8 13 21 etc.).
This can be experienced on any string instrument, where if your finger is lightly placed at any one of the ratios a high harmonic tone can be plucked. These harmonics do not occur just anywhere but are in relation to these exact ratios that subdivide the string. This may be seen as the Natural Ordering of Sound being manifest into the Objective Universe for us to hear.

Johannes Avianius offered this viewpoint: "The harmonic, simple, and direct triad is the true and unitrisonic root of all the most perfect and most complete harmonies that exist in the world. It is the root of even thousands and millions of sounds, because each of them should ultimately be reduces to the parts of the triad, either by unison or by octave."[‘The Isagoge 1581].

Christiaan Huygens in his ‘The Celestial Worlds Discover'd' 1698 states "the Laws of Musick are unchangeably fix'd by Nature, and thus must not only apply for western cultures, the earth, and our solar system, but the rest of the universe too"

- *1 *2- excerpts from a book I have been writing.

I'll bite.

Quote:

We have basically two sounds, they are either Harmonious or Chaotic. Examples of Harmonious sounds include the human voice, vibrating strings, lawn mowers, jet engines, jack hammers, cars and fans. Examples of Chaotic sounds include crumpling paper, blowing leaves, sneezes, the background conversational din in a restaurant and firecrackers.

What makes lawn mowers harmonious and leaf blowers chaotic? They're both annoying as hell. Because leaf blowers are off and on whereas a lawn mower stays on til its done usually? A jack hammer is harmonious?

I'm sure you could make music involving a jack hammer or a leaf blower or a lawn mower, but I'm not sure about the distinction between the two. Can you clarify?

Cool, writing a book eh? Very nice!

MoonlitSunshine · 12-08-2011, 10:07 AM

Probably worth noting that the scientific definition of a "tone" is a group of related frequencies and harmonics. The scientific definition of "noise" is a group of unrelated frequencies. More often than not, the human voice is in fact noise, unless we are concentrating on making particular notes and tones. Lawn Mowers etc. can give the impression of creating "harmonious sounds", because our ears are tuned such that we are capable of picking patterns out of chaos, but by and large they are creating noise, not tones.

All this being said, I have been known to sing along with the Microwave.

**Janszoon** · 12-08-2011, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wisdom

I saw that before. Certainly not repulsive and with some similarities to a female singer probably considered pretty by many.
Alannah Myles Pic - Image of Alannah Myles - AllStarPics.Net

Are you kidding?

12-07-2011, 04:25 PM	#82 (permalink)
starrynight Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937	In the recorded music age of course we often don't even know what a singer looks like at all. And there is the assumption here that there is only one voice style that people like, there are all kinds of different vocals which can be appreciated with enough familiarity. __________________ non-cliquey member of every music forum I participate on

12-07-2011, 04:42 PM	#83 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I think a lot of what you guys are saying is very interesting...but you are reaching way too far. None of this could be proven without someone else bringing up a ton of confounding factors. Look for the simplest explanation and then build off that. Musical ability reflecting sexual fitness is something the modern world has come up with. Most ancient music was developed as a way to communicate with gods. For example...Native Americans and the rain dance. With that, it would be easy for me to say that music started its evolution in the fact that early humans recognized the purity in the patterns that I mentioned and felt it was mystical. Shamans and mystics who could more accurately channel these patterns were deemed...well...I guess more fit than the others. I bet early musical evolution can be traced to that. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

12-07-2011, 04:56 PM	#84 (permalink)
starrynight Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937	Yeh someone did mention sacred music. Our instinct to think beyond our world and to try and explain our existence goes way back millions of years too. The point that we probably took our musical ideas from nature and that aspects of nature were also worshiped probably links together as well. __________________ non-cliquey member of every music forum I participate on

12-08-2011, 10:07 AM	#89 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	Probably worth noting that the scientific definition of a "tone" is a group of related frequencies and harmonics. The scientific definition of "noise" is a group of unrelated frequencies. More often than not, the human voice is in fact noise, unless we are concentrating on making particular notes and tones. Lawn Mowers etc. can give the impression of creating "harmonious sounds", because our ears are tuned such that we are capable of picking patterns out of chaos, but by and large they are creating noise, not tones. All this being said, I have been known to sing along with the Microwave. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

12-07-2011, 03:17 PM	#81 (permalink)
Salami Get in ma belly Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 1,385	What do you think about Susan Boyle? She's one of the less athletic people I can envisage, but can still sing well.

12-07-2011, 11:59 PM	#87 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	I saw that before. Certainly not repulsive and with some similarities to a female singer probably considered pretty by many. Alannah Myles Pic - Image of Alannah Myles - AllStarPics.Net