MoonlitSunshine

Damn Straight. I've had a number of discussions about whether certain artists should be considered poets or musicians *cough*LeonardCohen*cough*, I definitely believe that if someone is primarily a lyricist and not a "musician", then it's really accompanied poetry rather than music.

Any chance you could elaborate on this particular paragraph in less... verbose language? I think one of the main reasons people don't like your posts is that because of the method in which you write your soliloquies, it comes across rather like you are intentionally speaking in tongues - disguising a lack of substance through the use of overly flowery language. I'm highlighting this paragraph as it seems to make no sense. Are you saying Music is regressing? Are you saying it isn't, which is proof that music did not evolve, as everything else is regressing? Are you discounting the entire subject on account of not believing in the concept of Evolution? Your posts leave many questions, and answer few. Perhaps if you made more of an effort to be clear people would be more happy to see you post.

Or hey, maybe you're just trolling, in which case, good for you. *pat*


I agree that there is no true sense of moral right or wrong (my own personal views extend that to a concept of morals being a form of unwritten societal law of mutual security), but I think you're extending the concept a little too much with this. The reason that morals etc. can be argued to have no Objective truth is because, there is no objective, universal standard to compare them to.

Taste in Music and Sense of Humour, for example, are even more subjective because they are part of a set of concepts that don't have order - that is to say, you cannot categorically rank senses of humour or taste in music, there is no mutually agreed order, like there are with, say, numbers. Noone can argue that 1 is greater than 2, because it is universally agreed that 1 is less than 2, agreed? Thus we have subjectivity, and my agreement with you that noone really has the right to say that someone's taste in music sucks, it's more that their taste in music doesn't agree with our own, but we will still maintain the right to tell people their taste in music sucks from the condescending heights of our own sense of superiority :P

However, Technical Ability is slightly different. It is possible to rank technical ability, because it is something which a) can increase over time and b) is measurable through the use of a number of different aspects of skill, depending on the instrument. It's an example of something called a Partially-Ordered Set in maths, if you're remotely interested.



The Gist of the spoiler for people who don't like maths is that because you can define technical ability by a combination of definitely ordered skills - how fast you can play, how cleanly you can play etc. etc. - there this a universal method by which you can at least semi-order technical ability. Using such a system, if would clearly be possible to prove categorically, without subjective personal bias, that there are far more technical artists than Ke$ha.

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"I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?"

- Arthur Dent

Howard the Duck

all i know is my neighbour's dogs hate metal

with a passion

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Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

blankety blank

thanks blaster. Looks like I missed the "not". I guess it would sound condescending without that little word

For those who believe I am being so, I apologize. Blastingas hit it on the head when he mentions 'thought provoking'.

Provoking thought most times does sound antagonistic. I am no one's antagonist. Antagonism is a perception, and, I am quite used to being perceived as such. It is not my intention to get under people's skin. It just works out that way.

Music has gone through change over time. It has changed tremendously, mostly due to technological advances, and not a biological process, or in relation, IMHO. Everything evolves as it pertains to things changing over time. However, as it applies to the concept of evolutionism, a biological process, I simply don't see it.

I will be the first to admit that maybe I am not as well schooled as some of you on this subject, only to say that as I see it, it is apparent that we are no longer 'evolving' as a specie. I actually see evolutionism as more of a devolving process. This is the way it appears to me, and, if anyone can show me the error in this belief, I would be happy to hear it.

Most of you hear the music. I see modern music as more of a message from a higher consciousness.

Lyrics that are not 'designed' as a tool to gain the attraction of a specific audience, almost always have Spiritual connotations. And, have become increasingly less-than positive in nature.

After that thou shall come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:

Philistine n. - a person who is lacking in or hostile or smugly indifferent to cultural values, intellectual pursuits, aesthetic refinement, etc., or is contentedly commonplace in ideas and tastes.

This is our war. It is not a historical account of ancient battles. These 'ancient' writings are modern-day prophesies, and, despite the accepted interpretations, are not silly stories designed to create any ritualistic religion. They are about tearing down the social, economic, and political barriers that prevent humans from coming together as a human race, and, actually evolving into a people that can co-exist in an orderly, peaceful society.

But none say, Where is God my maker, who gives us songs in the night?

I am getting way off-topic, so, I will say that I apologize for sounding condescending or arrogant, or any other perception that anyone may have, or gather from these rants. And, ask that people please post music that may support the notions or arguments they may present.

Here is an example of a simple, yet goofy song that carries no real message, other than someone who got drunk, and ate a chicken


Those Darlins Feat. Deer Tick - Whole Damn Thing - Firehouse 13 - Providence RI - YouTube" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Faith, Love, Peace, Truth, Understanding, Charity, Justice, and Liberation from the bonds that really tie us down, and, prevent further human evolution. These are values that I hope everyone considers before responding.

And, not at all condescending. I Truly understand humility, and, I realize that I am far from being the most intelligent person here.

steve

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The passing traveler stops for food and music.

Salami

Without wishing to sound mean or disrespectful, I seem to remember you claiming that you had a degree in psychology. If this is true, these comments are very perplexing.

First of all, let's clear up the terms. "evolutionism" is not the same as "evolution". "Evolutionism" is a belief that all organisms are bound to increase in complexity. It also a belief which concerns cultural evolution. It is not a particularly useful term, since it's main users are creationists who want to deride the scientific consensus. It is not to be confused with the biological principle.

Secondly, if you hold the idea that humans have reached the peak of their development and will not evolve further, this comes across to me as a very anthropocentric position. Just because we can't see any new avenue for us to evolve into, this doesn't rule it out. For example, it may surprise you to learn of all the vestigial organs in the body, for which their function is no longer required. For example, the coccyx: we don't need a tail bone any more and it has been removed from the body on several occasions with no adverse effects.
What I'm saying is that considering the human body to be in it's most perfect state and "we are no longer 'evolving' as a species" is false. Evolution continues, and it is anthropocentric to view otherwise.
And coming to the most important part, the brain. We know very little about the brain, and considering the limitations of human intelligence, I can't see how anyone can claim that the current state of the human brain is the most advanced intelligence can be.

And when the human brain develops further, surely then the creativity of humans will also develop: a lot of music relies on simple chord sequences and fairly similar content.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the point is that when evolution has allowed our brains a greater scope of creativity, the effects on music will become manifest.

It's a music forum, everyone here listens to music

blankety blank

I am not going to argue any of your points. Psychology was indeed a minor many years ago, and I was in a haze, so I paid minor attention. And, evolution was not a subject I took much stock in at the time, and, not a huge course of study involved in abnormal psych.
Do you think due to the current situation this world faces, that man will continue to survive long enough on this planet to actually reach this point?

I don't. And, if he Truly understood the CNS from a perspective outside of biology, he would cut that coccyx out, or suck it out with a vacuum cleaner faster than you can say circumcision. Truly 'cond-ascending' information flows upward from that monster lying just below the 'sacrum'.

I will only argue that single-cell organisms can out think our tremendously sized brains, and can replicate faster than we can say clone.

I appreciate your comments, and, even as some were 'tongue-in-cheek' at best; but, not condescending at all. Right? It's alright. I'm a big boy, I can take it. You are the Mighty Mighty Salami, and, I hope like heck I am full of mighty mighty bologna.

And, you're right. Everyone here listens to music. How many listen to the words?



They say Brian May wrote this song after he had a dream about the 'Great Flood'. I say he wrote us a message. It's kind of a haunting message to be sure. I did not look, but, I will guess you to be from the U.K. If not, forgive me, but Queen was one very significant band.

If they would have just stayed clear of synthesizers. Read the lyrics, they are quite creative, and poignant.

peace

steve

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The passing traveler stops for food and music.

SIRIUSB

I adore this song, always have!

Salami

Good heavens.
Do I come across like that? I'm sorry if I sounded so serious. I know people get very worked up over this, and I don't want to be one of them!
This a very good point, steve. Thanks for that one!

And yes, I am from the UK

SIRIUSB

I'm listening, this band, this creation brings me to tears, it is so GREAT, so awesome, they were a phenomenon, unreal . . . May is a Dæmon!

blankety blank

No man. I was just kidding about being condescending. I wish people would take me a little less seriously most times.

I figured more than a 'good heavens'

One thing I do know is Words mighty. If you would like, wiki 'near death experiences'. Then, read down to the part concerning 'Siamese Twins'.

They write it off as kind of nonsense. It is not. I know exactly what it means. I've experienced things that would leave anyone here in a nut house, both pleasant and horrifying. If it were not for Faith and Love, I would have checked in a while ago. Wiki that please. You all need to hear some things. I'll try to be funnier, but, it is a matter as serious as a heart attack

If anyone would like, I will explain the circumstances, and why the artists who are not in it for the money speak to us, and have for years. This is the one so-called 'gift' I have. I see the meaning in Words, and, it is not all that much of a 'gift'.

Here's another of my favorite bands who delivered powerful messages.



Well I been drinkin' again
And I know it's a sin
But I just can't refuse an old friend
Cause life is gettin' me down
And I been two times around
And there ain't nothing but pain around the bend
I'm not made for the time
I'm born in the wrong century
There's too much craziness here
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

Now this old world is a fright
You know my future ain't bright
And I'd just crawl in a hole if I could
Or maybe live out in space
Or some other far away place
And not come back to this earth till it's good
Oh but I'm dreaming again
I know that I'm here till the end
There's too much craziness here
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

Well you might think that I'm all wrong
The things I say in this song
I really wish I could see it your way
Cause there's a storm rollin' in
And it just might be the end
So I'm praying we'll all get away
Now my cup is running dry
The weight of the world gets me down
There's too much craziness here
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

There's nowhere to turn
So I'll just have to learn not to cry, no more
It's all I can do till we find something new
But I'll get by you know I'll try
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes.

Of course, you have to multiply the years by 2+, but, I'm 'still crazy after all these years'. I heard that in a song somewhere.....

peace

steve

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The passing traveler stops for food and music.

duga

I've read about near death experiences and there is still absolutely no way it proves anything one way or another. Anything experienced in that time could be considered a hallucination considering the brain is flooded with DMT at the time of death.

I've got a very direct question for you. How does this relate to the evolution of music? This question requires absolutely no metaphorical or metaphysical rambling, so consider this a challenge to deliver a post that all of us can understand.

How does this relate to the evolution of music?

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