Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart?

TockTockTock · 08-09-2011, 11:58 PM

I'm sure you know the similarities (and differences) between the two. They were both friends in high school, they both collaborated on an album (Bongo Fury), Zappa produced Trout Mask Replica, and they both shared similarities in musical composition in that they both had a sort of "silliness" about their sound and lyrical content as well as a hankering for experimentation. Needless to say, however, they were both VERY different in their musicianship... For instance, Zappa went into chamber music and other genres and had a much more expansive musical career (in both length and variety) while Beefheart stopped after twenty some-odd years to do his abstract expressionist paintings. And here I am rambling about two musicians that you all know a lot about (or at least I hope you do), and I should shut up and get to the God damn point... which one do you prefer: Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart?

Try to keep it civil. The creation of this thread was out of shear boredom and mindless curiosity... Also, it wouldn't hurt to name your favorite album by either one of them.

Neapolitan · 08-10-2011, 12:01 AM

Captain Beefheart. Did you ever notice "Abba Zaba" is "apa ZAPPA" upside-down

TockTockTock · 08-10-2011, 12:29 AM

Voted Beefheart... Trout Mask Replica is my favorite album of his (although, it's pretty much tied with his first four albums and Doc at the Radar Station), and this is my favorite review of it...

"This album is based on a lie- instead of a replica trout mask, the photo is actually of an authentic, real, trout mask. This is an affront to native trouts like myself, since the sacred holy traditions of trouts hold that actual trout masks should not be displayed in public. Captain Beefheart (Beef Heart? or Bee Fart?) tricked the trout nation when he agreed to use a replica on the album cover, and then went ahead and used a real trout mask. This is very politically incorrect in the trout streams of America (where one can go trout fishing in America. Ha ha). For this reason, I have boycotted this album. // PS - The music is great."

He/she voted one star for some reason... Either way, I got a good laugh from reading it.

Antonio · 08-10-2011, 02:11 AM

gotta go with Zappa, pretty much because i'm more likely to want to listen to his music.

Guybrush · 08-10-2011, 04:28 AM

Gotta go with Zappa here too .. The man was a genius. On popular albums like Over-nite Sensation, every song is a wealth of musical ideas and Zappa was that rare kind of person who was not only amazingly creative, funny and charming, but he could write all those ideas down on paper and find people supremely skilled enough to play his compositions. His music is engaging (much more so than Beefheart's for me) and the guy was hilarious.

Here's a funny fact. Tina Turner and the Ikettes did backing vocals for Over-Nite Sensation .. For an interesting example, listen to their contribution on Montana just after about 3:20 minutes in.

edit :

The lyrics for their part might be hard to catch up on. Here they are :

I'm pluckin' the ol' Dennil Floss
That's growin' on the prairie
Pluckin' the floss!
I plucked all day an' all nite an' all Afternoon...
I'm ridin' a small tiny hoss
(His name is MIGHTY LITTLE)
He's a good hoss
Even though He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
Anyway
I'm pluckin' the ol' Dennil Floss
Even if you think it is a little silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks

Psy-Fi · 08-10-2011, 07:32 AM

I prefer Zappa's music with the Mothers during the 1960's to mid 1970's, to Captain Beefheart's music during the same period.
However, I prefer Captain Beefheart's music from the late 1970's to early 80's to Zappa's music during that time.

Howard the Duck · 08-10-2011, 07:38 AM

haven't really heard that much Zappa, I'll go with Beefheart

fave Zappa - Hot Rats
fave Beefheart - Lick My Decals Off, Baby

OccultHawk · 08-10-2011, 07:10 PM

Beefheart is so much better this can pretty much be used as a litmus test to judge a person's understanding of music. It gets into an area so clear cut it's no longer a matter of opinion. The one main thing that gives Zappa serious credibility is his association with Beefheart. Zappa did some really cool stuff and I respect him but Beefheart must be honored with the deepest kind of reverence reserved for a very select few musicians. If you don't vote for Beefheart in the poll you should feel embarrassed. The difference is that profound.

Sneer · 08-10-2011, 07:12 PM

Beefheart, without hesitation for me.

I've never got into Zappa, despite giving a great deal of attention to an admittedly vast back catalogue. The fact is he's never made an album that got me as much as Safe as Milk, TMR and LMDO,B have.

Favourite is Safe as Milk.

Zappa's best is Hot Rats.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 08-11-2011, 12:04 AM

I went with Zappa. In a lot of ways, I adore Captain Beefheart, but feel his influence/personality often outweigh the quality of his musical output. Beefheart was a true original, and a genius in many ways, but basically hit his limitations early on.

Essentially, Beefheart had his thing that he perfected for Trout Mask Replica, and polished with Lick My Decals Off, but I think he really failed to go anywhere from there. As ingenious as a lot of the subtle values of his work, once you get past those it's all just basically all just off timed blues with abstract lyrics.

Zappa consistently changed his sound from year to year to year and seemed to have a pretty good grip on what he was doing. He has his great albums, and his stinkers, but he continued to evolve his sound throughout. Beefheart's only attempt at evolution after "Lick My Decals Off" was a failed attempt at a commercial sound for years ended in just a reversion to the Trout Mask Replica sound. (Bat Chain Puller I believe was actually all material written between Trout Mask Replica and Lick my Decals off, Baby.")

Plus, I've never been keen on Beefheart's ridiculous ego, and insane obsession with having to mix the instrument tracks down to nothing so his, admittedly awesome, voice could be heard.

Both geniuses, both innovators, but I feel Zappa is a significantly more poignant musician who would only be overshadowed by Beefheart due to his underdog value.

View Poll Results: Choose one...
Frank Zappa	36	69.23%
Captain Beefheart	16	30.77%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

08-09-2011, 11:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
TockTockTock They/Them Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,914	Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart? I'm sure you know the similarities (and differences) between the two. They were both friends in high school, they both collaborated on an album (Bongo Fury), Zappa produced Trout Mask Replica, and they both shared similarities in musical composition in that they both had a sort of "silliness" about their sound and lyrical content as well as a hankering for experimentation. Needless to say, however, they were both VERY different in their musicianship... For instance, Zappa went into chamber music and other genres and had a much more expansive musical career (in both length and variety) while Beefheart stopped after twenty some-odd years to do his abstract expressionist paintings. And here I am rambling about two musicians that you all know a lot about (or at least I hope you do), and I should shut up and get to the God damn point... which one do you prefer: Frank Zappa or Captain Beefheart? Try to keep it civil. The creation of this thread was out of shear boredom and mindless curiosity... Also, it wouldn't hurt to name your favorite album by either one of them. Last edited by TockTockTock; 08-10-2011 at 12:04 AM.

08-10-2011, 04:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Gotta go with Zappa here too .. The man was a genius. On popular albums like Over-nite Sensation, every song is a wealth of musical ideas and Zappa was that rare kind of person who was not only amazingly creative, funny and charming, but he could write all those ideas down on paper and find people supremely skilled enough to play his compositions. His music is engaging (much more so than Beefheart's for me) and the guy was hilarious. Here's a funny fact. Tina Turner and the Ikettes did backing vocals for Over-Nite Sensation .. For an interesting example, listen to their contribution on Montana just after about 3:20 minutes in. edit : The lyrics for their part might be hard to catch up on. Here they are : I'm pluckin' the ol' Dennil Floss That's growin' on the prairie Pluckin' the floss! I plucked all day an' all nite an' all Afternoon... I'm ridin' a small tiny hoss (His name is MIGHTY LITTLE) He's a good hoss Even though He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or Blanket on anyway He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or Blanket on anyway Anyway I'm pluckin' the ol' Dennil Floss Even if you think it is a little silly, folks I don't care if you think it's silly, folks I don't care if you think it's silly, folks __________________ Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 08-10-2011 at 04:37 AM.

08-10-2011, 07:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sneer Let it drip Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,430	Beefheart, without hesitation for me. I've never got into Zappa, despite giving a great deal of attention to an admittedly vast back catalogue. The fact is he's never made an album that got me as much as Safe as Milk, TMR and LMDO,B have. Favourite is Safe as Milk. Zappa's best is Hot Rats. __________________ LastFM Sneer's Emporium of Sound Fright Team radio show

08-10-2011, 12:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
TockTockTock They/Them Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,914	Voted Beefheart... Trout Mask Replica is my favorite album of his (although, it's pretty much tied with his first four albums and Doc at the Radar Station), and this is my favorite review of it... "This album is based on a lie- instead of a replica trout mask, the photo is actually of an authentic, real, trout mask. This is an affront to native trouts like myself, since the sacred holy traditions of trouts hold that actual trout masks should not be displayed in public. Captain Beefheart (Beef Heart? or Bee Fart?) tricked the trout nation when he agreed to use a replica on the album cover, and then went ahead and used a real trout mask. This is very politically incorrect in the trout streams of America (where one can go trout fishing in America. Ha ha). For this reason, I have boycotted this album. // PS - The music is great." He/she voted one star for some reason... Either way, I got a good laugh from reading it.

08-10-2011, 07:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
Psy-Fi Aficionado of Fine Filth Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: You don't want to look in there. Posts: 6,898	I prefer Zappa's music with the Mothers during the 1960's to mid 1970's, to Captain Beefheart's music during the same period. However, I prefer Captain Beefheart's music from the late 1970's to early 80's to Zappa's music during that time.

08-10-2011, 07:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Beefheart is so much better this can pretty much be used as a litmus test to judge a person's understanding of music. It gets into an area so clear cut it's no longer a matter of opinion. The one main thing that gives Zappa serious credibility is his association with Beefheart. Zappa did some really cool stuff and I respect him but Beefheart must be honored with the deepest kind of reverence reserved for a very select few musicians. If you don't vote for Beefheart in the poll you should feel embarrassed. The difference is that profound.

08-11-2011, 12:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra \/ GOD Join Date: May 2010 Location: Nowhere... Posts: 2,179	I went with Zappa. In a lot of ways, I adore Captain Beefheart, but feel his influence/personality often outweigh the quality of his musical output. Beefheart was a true original, and a genius in many ways, but basically hit his limitations early on. Essentially, Beefheart had his thing that he perfected for Trout Mask Replica, and polished with Lick My Decals Off, but I think he really failed to go anywhere from there. As ingenious as a lot of the subtle values of his work, once you get past those it's all just basically all just off timed blues with abstract lyrics. Zappa consistently changed his sound from year to year to year and seemed to have a pretty good grip on what he was doing. He has his great albums, and his stinkers, but he continued to evolve his sound throughout. Beefheart's only attempt at evolution after "Lick My Decals Off" was a failed attempt at a commercial sound for years ended in just a reversion to the Trout Mask Replica sound. (Bat Chain Puller I believe was actually all material written between Trout Mask Replica and Lick my Decals off, Baby.") Plus, I've never been keen on Beefheart's ridiculous ego, and insane obsession with having to mix the instrument tracks down to nothing so his, admittedly awesome, voice could be heard. Both geniuses, both innovators, but I feel Zappa is a significantly more poignant musician who would only be overshadowed by Beefheart due to his underdog value.