I really don't understand the reputation of some musicians.

Dr_Rez · 06-26-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loose_lips_sink_ships

That was amazing. Was he using a pick???

GuitarBizarre · 06-26-2011, 06:55 PM

Loose lips, what about this? YouTube - ‪Guthrie Govan - Waves‬&rlm;

mr dave · 06-29-2011, 05:04 PM

I think the biggest issue facing the reputation of people like Malmsteen, Satriani and Vai (how has he not been mentioned yet) is that they're still being compared to 'rock' musicians who mostly play by the numbers blues based rock and roll whereas the majority of 'shredders' (for lack of a better term) seem to draw more from classical and jazz (more complex melodic/rhythmic themes and virtuosic/improvisational soloing). The problem is most people are seeing an electric guitar and expecting them to play it along the same kind of blues based rock and roll pattern that's been rehashed for the last 50 years.

As for Malmsteen's reputation it seems that he's been judged based on the merits of his followers rather than his catalog (which reminds me more of what would result if Judas Priest raped Iron Maiden). He may the one who created an army of soulless widdly widdly widdly machines, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a HUGE Hendrix head and if Hendrix wasn't all about the subtleties and nuances of how he was playing his music. I don't think it's possible for anyone to claim to be a Hendrix fan and not have some ability / comprehension of the effectiveness of the subtle nuances in sliding, bending, shaking, or any other way of shaping the sound of a note.

The problem with people like Fareri who have obviously spawned from the shred scene is that they're primarily technique by a huge margin. They know how to add vibrato to a note, but not why. It's not to say their music is soulless but it's presented in a way most people don't understand how to appreciate. Do most of us recognize merit of how an office tower was built besides it's visual aesthetic? No, but an architect would.

~~Farfisa~~ · 06-29-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

I think the biggest issue facing the reputation of people like Malmsteen, Satriani and Vai (how has he not been mentioned yet) is that they're still being compared to 'rock' musicians who mostly play by the numbers blues based rock and roll whereas the majority of 'shredders' (for lack of a better term) seem to draw more from classical and jazz (more complex melodic/rhythmic themes and virtuosic/improvisational soloing). The problem is most people are seeing an electric guitar and expecting them to play it along the same kind of blues based rock and roll pattern that's been rehashed for the last 50 years.

As for Malmsteen's reputation it seems that he's been judged based on the merits of his followers rather than his catalog (which reminds me more of what would result if Judas Priest raped Iron Maiden). He may the one who created an army of soulless widdly widdly widdly machines, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a HUGE Hendrix head and if Hendrix wasn't all about the subtleties and nuances of how he was playing his music. I don't think it's possible for anyone to claim to be a Hendrix fan and not have some ability / comprehension of the effectiveness of the subtle nuances in sliding, bending, shaking, or any other way of shaping the sound of a note.

The problem with people like Fareri who have obviously spawned from the shred scene is that they're primarily technique by a huge margin. They know how to add vibrato to a note, but not why. It's not to say their music is soulless but it's presented in a way most people don't understand how to appreciate. Do most of us recognize merit of how an office tower was built besides it's visual aesthetic? No, but an architect would.

That's not true at all, I think there are tons of kids from my generation that think being a good guitarist is having the ability to play really fast. They don't think of as a guitar as something that would play blues based rock & roll, they think of super low drop tunings and sweep picking.

jackhammer · 06-29-2011, 06:45 PM

I personally think that certain musicians no matter what genre they play are generally appreciated by musicians whereas the casual fan of the given genre are not musicians and are bored easily by the endless noodling.

This goes for fret wankers, drum heads, bass twiddlers or keyboard tinklers. Whenever members of a band do a solo spot I am bored crapless no matter what band they are in. I know that the examples you are putting forward are artists in their own right but I am not a musician so I just don't like virtuosity in music and it just has to be accepted that many people feel the same way.

Dr_Rez · 06-30-2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackhammer

I personally think that certain musicians no matter what genre they play are generally appreciated by musicians whereas the casual fan of the given genre are not musicians and are bored easily by the endless noodling.

This goes for fret wankers, drum heads, bass twiddlers or keyboard tinklers. Whenever members of a band do a solo spot I am bored crapless no matter what band they are in. I know that the examples you are putting forward are artists in their own right but I am not a musician so I just don't like virtuosity in music and it just has to be accepted that many people feel the same way.

David Gilmore does his fair share of wanking.

**Janszoon** · 06-30-2011, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaSho

This is what I think of when I think of Malmsteen or any G3 guitarist
Stuff like this:

I've never been a fan of these kinds of guitarists but I actually kind of enjoyed that for some weird reason.

GuitarBizarre · 06-30-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezZ

David Gilmore does his fair share of wanking.

God yes.

SATCHMO · 06-30-2011, 01:44 PM

The first show that I ever went to when I was a kid, Yngwie was the opener, and despite the fact that I was there to see him, I went away from the show feeling like I'd gained so much from being able to see his playing and performance up close and personal. There was a great deal of honest emotion that came through in his playing.

I think it's fair to say that at the time that Yngwie was making a name for himself, neo-classical guitar wankery hadn't quite become the cliche that it is today. Certainly Yngwie playing does seem a bit formulaic at times, but unlike many of the musicians that were influenced by him, he was not simply rehashing some other guitarists discarded ideas. You also have to hand it to someone like Yngwie who has almost exclusively played Strats throughout his whole career, a guitar that does not easily lend itself to fits of shredding.

I especially love Mr. Dave's architect analogy, which in a sense is another way of saying if you don't know what you're listening for, you might not appreciate what you're hearing.

GuitarBizarre · 06-30-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loose_lips_sink_ships

That's not true at all, I think there are tons of kids from my generation that think being a good guitarist is having the ability to play really fast. They don't think of as a guitar as something that would play blues based rock & roll, they think of super low drop tunings and sweep picking.

Yeah but those people idolize tools like this guy:

YouTube - ‪Monte Money talks to GW + Guitar Lessons‬&rlm;

Note if you will how badly he ****ing MURDERS Yngwie's "Trilogy Suite Op.5"

This is how that SHOULD have sounded. There are clever improvisational additions, the song is harmonically far more complex than anything "Monte Money" has ever written, and, douche though he is, Yngwie at the very least can back himself up pretty damned well if someone questions why in the **** he's on the cover of a guitar magazine. All you have to do to destroy monte's credibility is be better than him at guitar, which really isn't hard.

YouTube - ‪Yngwie Malmsteen - Trilogy suite OP5‬&rlm;

The problem is that those guitarists are coming from two backgrounds at once. One is pretty much the big 4 of thrash metal, which is pretty much pentatonic after pentatonic, 5ths, and isn't that far removed from motorhead, who aren't that far removed from any other basic rock and roll band.

The second background is the shred scene, but, being young, they're mixing the two - The "**** yeah metalllllll" impulse is running wild, so they learn the techniques but they have NO IDEA how to apply them in a framework outside of the basic pentatonic crap they've been doing for fun while building up their technique.

End result? Sweep picking gets thrown into pentatonic based rock and blues contexts with little to no reasoning behind it beyond showing off the guitarists (lack of) skill.

Which, is, ironically, just as much missing the point as Fareri or any other cookie cutter shredder.

06-29-2011, 06:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	I personally think that certain musicians no matter what genre they play are generally appreciated by musicians whereas the casual fan of the given genre are not musicians and are bored easily by the endless noodling. This goes for fret wankers, drum heads, bass twiddlers or keyboard tinklers. Whenever members of a band do a solo spot I am bored crapless no matter what band they are in. I know that the examples you are putting forward are artists in their own right but I am not a musician so I just don't like virtuosity in music and it just has to be accepted that many people feel the same way. __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

06-30-2011, 01:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	The first show that I ever went to when I was a kid, Yngwie was the opener, and despite the fact that I was there to see him, I went away from the show feeling like I'd gained so much from being able to see his playing and performance up close and personal. There was a great deal of honest emotion that came through in his playing. I think it's fair to say that at the time that Yngwie was making a name for himself, neo-classical guitar wankery hadn't quite become the cliche that it is today. Certainly Yngwie playing does seem a bit formulaic at times, but unlike many of the musicians that were influenced by him, he was not simply rehashing some other guitarists discarded ideas. You also have to hand it to someone like Yngwie who has almost exclusively played Strats throughout his whole career, a guitar that does not easily lend itself to fits of shredding. I especially love Mr. Dave's architect analogy, which in a sense is another way of saying if you don't know what you're listening for, you might not appreciate what you're hearing.