Production That Makes or Breaks a Song

**Janszoon** · 05-06-2011, 08:14 AM

I'm sure most people on MB would agree with me when I say production can really make or break a song. Many a song has been rendered lifeless by shitty production and many a song has been elevated to greatness by the right production. This is not to say a song needs to sound slick and mega-produced to sound good, not at all. Sometimes overproduction can kill a song if it doesn't suit the style, and likewise, sometimes raw, low-fi production is the very thing that makes a certain song work so well. The key is finding the right production style for the track.

So what are some of your favorite examples of production working wonders or going horribly awry? Two start with, here are two of mine:

Iggy Pop—"Nightclubbing"
Fantastic song, largely due to the production. Can you imagine how much less interesting it would have been without it's sleek, jet black production style? If it had been mixed like some generic 70s rock song with ordinary sounding drums and thin keyboards, both much lower in the mix, it wouldn't be nearly as good.

Eddie Grant—"Electric Avenue"
On the other end of the spectrum we have this. It actually has the potential to be a good song but the production is so weak it turns it into something that's only so-so. Listen to it on good speakers and you'll see what I mean. Everything is very mid range, with hardly any low end to be heard whatsoever. The bass keyboard is a particularly notable offender here. What could have been rumbling and driving the song forward is reduced to a squeaky synthetic fart. And the paper-thin drums and guitar aren't helping the situation. I think with more of deep, dub production style this track could have been great though.

Antonio · 05-06-2011, 08:38 AM

most of Black Flag's Damaged suffers HEAVILY from the terrible production. these days i can't listen to half of it without feeling sick.

as for record saved by good production, Rick Ross' Teflon Don is a fantastically crafted music-wise and is only hindered from being truly great by his bland lyricism and at times shoddy rhyming. but then again Ross has always had the sense to get great production on board for his music. that and you get some classic lines from it, like

Quote:

I'm thinkin money, every moment thinkin money
I bust a nut, then i'm back to thinkin MONEY!!

**Janszoon** · 05-06-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

most of Black Flag's Damaged suffers HEAVILY from the terrible production. these days i can't listen to half of it without feeling sick.

I've found that to be the case with a lot of SST releases. There's always this muffled quality that makes them sound like the music is coming from inside a toilet.

DoctorSoft · 05-06-2011, 08:46 AM

Great album, but goddawful production.

starrynight · 05-06-2011, 09:40 AM

I don't think good production can make a very average or boring song great but I suppose it can make it more listenable for people.

duga · 05-06-2011, 10:49 AM

Ok I know I talk about this album a lot...but it fits.

Best:

Mars Volta - Deloused in the Comatorium

Jeremy Ward and Rick Rubin made this a masterpiece. It's all in the atmosphere. Jeremy Ward passed away after this album and it became painfully apparent on the band's subsequent work. I think even on their most experimental material, if Jeremy had still been around he would have made it genius. This band would have been hands down the best progressive rock act of all time.

Worst:

Rush - Hold Your Fire

Rush started using more and more production from Permanent Waves onwards. It's like they caught the 80's overproduction bug and didn't know how to stop. This is when things got truly out of hand. It sounds like absolutely everything in this album is totally unnatural and machine made. Some of the songs might have actually worked if they had just toned it down a bit. Sadly, they didn't and what we get is a truly horrendous album.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 05-06-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

most of Black Flag's Damaged suffers HEAVILY from the terrible production. these days i can't listen to half of it without feeling sick.

I find the opposite.
I think the rawness of the production makes that album. Although I do agree with Janszoon that it ruins other SST albums.
Pretty much all of Husker Du's stuff after Zen Arcade sounds awful, especially the last 2 albums on Warners.

Another band who's production I've never really liked despite being a favourite of mine is Motorhead.
You'd think with Lemmy being the band leader that Motorhead albums would have real powerful pounding basslines, but because of the way he plays it just sounds like a slightly lower toned lead guitar and it just makes the music feel a little flat & tinny. I can't think of a single Motorhead album where the production really packs a punch and i've always found that a shame.
I think Jimmy Miller probably came closest on Overkill.

One producer I particularly like is Martin Hannett. I've seen various people including members of Joy Division slate his production, especially on Unknown Pleasures but I think that he made that album sound so unique it's one of the reasons it's held in such high regard.

CanwllCorfe · 05-06-2011, 11:13 AM

Piss poor production and Black Metal go hand in hand. Sometimes it works:

But then in the case with the Mayhem's Ordo ad Chao, I just don't like it. It sounds bass heavy, and just wrong.

It's not so much that it's merely bad production (which I read was intentional), but how they went about doing it.

duga · 05-06-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

Another band who's production I've never really liked despite being a favourite of mine is Motorhead.
You'd think with Lemmy being the band leader that Motorhead albums would have real powerful pounding basslines, but because of the way he plays it just sounds like a slightly lower toned lead guitar and it just makes the music feel a little flat & tinny. I can't think of a single Motorhead album where the production really packs a punch and i've always found that a shame.
I think Jimmy Miller probably came closest on Overkill.

I think that sound works sometimes...there are definitely certain songs where I feel it played out nicely. I do tend to agree with you for most of their material, though. Even when I crank up the bass on my speakers, it still sounds like crap. Oh well...it's a shame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

One producer I particularly like is Martin Hannett. I've seen various people including members of Joy Division slate his production, especially on Unknown Pleasures but I think that he made that album sound so unique it's one of the reasons it's held in such high regard.

If Joy Division had better production, I wouldn't listen to it. The fact that it sounds like it was recorded in a basement by someone with a razor blade in one hand the a guitar in the other is kind of the appeal of the band. In fact, it has always kind of bothered me that New Order used Ceremony when they were first starting. The crappy demo with Ian Curtis on vocals, despite it being REALLY rough, is still better than the New Order version. It loses its edge with that production.

TockTockTock · 05-06-2011, 02:03 PM

I've always had more of a connection with Daniel Johnston's early and poorly-produced/recorded work than his later and better-produced work. Sure, Fun is a decent album, but I much prefer Songs of Pain with Johnston banging away on his piano and howling into a cheap tape recorder. That's just me, though...

05-06-2011, 08:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	Production That Makes or Breaks a Song I'm sure most people on MB would agree with me when I say production can really make or break a song. Many a song has been rendered lifeless by shitty production and many a song has been elevated to greatness by the right production. This is not to say a song needs to sound slick and mega-produced to sound good, not at all. Sometimes overproduction can kill a song if it doesn't suit the style, and likewise, sometimes raw, low-fi production is the very thing that makes a certain song work so well. The key is finding the right production style for the track. So what are some of your favorite examples of production working wonders or going horribly awry? Two start with, here are two of mine: Iggy Pop—"Nightclubbing" Fantastic song, largely due to the production. Can you imagine how much less interesting it would have been without it's sleek, jet black production style? If it had been mixed like some generic 70s rock song with ordinary sounding drums and thin keyboards, both much lower in the mix, it wouldn't be nearly as good. Eddie Grant—"Electric Avenue" On the other end of the spectrum we have this. It actually has the potential to be a good song but the production is so weak it turns it into something that's only so-so. Listen to it on good speakers and you'll see what I mean. Everything is very mid range, with hardly any low end to be heard whatsoever. The bass keyboard is a particularly notable offender here. What could have been rumbling and driving the song forward is reduced to a squeaky synthetic fart. And the paper-thin drums and guitar aren't helping the situation. I think with more of deep, dub production style this track could have been great though. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

05-06-2011, 10:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Ok I know I talk about this album a lot...but it fits. Best: Mars Volta - Deloused in the Comatorium Jeremy Ward and Rick Rubin made this a masterpiece. It's all in the atmosphere. Jeremy Ward passed away after this album and it became painfully apparent on the band's subsequent work. I think even on their most experimental material, if Jeremy had still been around he would have made it genius. This band would have been hands down the best progressive rock act of all time. Worst: Rush - Hold Your Fire Rush started using more and more production from Permanent Waves onwards. It's like they caught the 80's overproduction bug and didn't know how to stop. This is when things got truly out of hand. It sounds like absolutely everything in this album is totally unnatural and machine made. Some of the songs might have actually worked if they had just toned it down a bit. Sadly, they didn't and what we get is a truly horrendous album. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

05-06-2011, 11:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	Piss poor production and Black Metal go hand in hand. Sometimes it works: But then in the case with the Mayhem's Ordo ad Chao, I just don't like it. It sounds bass heavy, and just wrong. It's not so much that it's merely bad production (which I read was intentional), but how they went about doing it. __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

05-06-2011, 08:46 AM	#4 (permalink)
DoctorSoft Rocket Appliances Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,335	Great album, but goddawful production.

05-06-2011, 09:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
starrynight Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937	I don't think good production can make a very average or boring song great but I suppose it can make it more listenable for people.

05-06-2011, 02:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
TockTockTock They/Them Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,914	I've always had more of a connection with Daniel Johnston's early and poorly-produced/recorded work than his later and better-produced work. Sure, Fun is a decent album, but I much prefer Songs of Pain with Johnston banging away on his piano and howling into a cheap tape recorder. That's just me, though...