The Unbearable Idiocy of Pop Music Elitism

duga · 01-20-2011, 01:40 PM

All of this boils down to one thing: music is personal. Everyone keeps trying to come to some consensus on how we should view certain music, but really it would just be like beating your head against a wall. For every person who thinks the Beatles were god's gift to humanity there will be 2 more trying to prove that person wrong. This same argument then gets cycled over and over.

I think someone kind of went into this earlier, but music is also about context. If the Beatles were around in the time of Mozart or any "classical" composers, their music would have been completely ignored. Why? Because music was high class back then. You didn't get to listen to the good stuff unless you were royalty or stinking rich. With the advent of recording technology, being able to play music in your home no longer meant you were special. It shifted to the common man's form of entertainment. The Beatles were perfect in THAT scenario. There are also still plenty of composers around making classical music, but most people don't know who the hell they are.

If we really want to start judging music in any consistent way, then we should focus strictly on how it makes us feel. Classical music can evoke the same emotions for me that a really great pop song can. Pop songs can sometimes have the complexity that would require the skill of a professional composer. You just have to take what that artist did and think "Can just anyone make something like this?".

Composers surely have more theoretical knowledge than a pop musician, but I don't think that has any bearing on who is the better musician. In fact, I think people can get bogged down with the specifics when they go a lot into theory. Music becomes more rigid. Anyway...I'll stop rambling. Everyone's opinion is going to be different.

Screen13 · 01-20-2011, 02:43 PM

^ Agree.

It will always be down to individual opinions.

~~Odyshape~~ · 01-20-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

All of this boils down to one thing: music is personal. Everyone keeps trying to come to some consensus on how we should view certain music, but really it would just be like beating your head against a wall. For every person who thinks the Beatles were god's gift to humanity there will be 2 more trying to prove that person wrong. This same argument then gets cycled over and over.

I think someone kind of went into this earlier, but music is also about context. If the Beatles were around in the time of Mozart or any "classical" composers, their music would have been completely ignored. Why? Because music was high class back then. You didn't get to listen to the good stuff unless you were royalty or stinking rich. With the advent of recording technology, being able to play music in your home no longer meant you were special. It shifted to the common man's form of entertainment. The Beatles were perfect in THAT scenario. There are also still plenty of composers around making classical music, but most people don't know who the hell they are.

If we really want to start judging music in any consistent way, then we should focus strictly on how it makes us feel. Classical music can evoke the same emotions for me that a really great pop song can. Pop songs can sometimes have the complexity that would require the skill of a professional composer. You just have to take what that artist did and think "Can just anyone make something like this?".

Composers surely have more theoretical knowledge than a pop musician, but I don't think that has any bearing on who is the better musician. In fact, I think people can get bogged down with the specifics when they go a lot into theory. Music becomes more rigid. Anyway...I'll stop rambling. Everyone's opinion is going to be different.

what a great post <3

duga · 01-21-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odyshape

what a great post <3

Thanks! I do what I can.

TheBig3 · 01-22-2011, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

All of this boils down to one thing: music is personal.

the 70's called and asked for its shtick back.

Saying that the Beatles are the second coming of Gandhi is not a personal statement. Its being carted out as inherent truth.

Dotoar · 01-22-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

the 70's called and asked for its shtick back.

Saying that the Beatles are the second coming of Gandhi is not a personal statement. Its being carted out as inherent truth.

Do people say that? Isn't that just a more or less subconscious projection of a strawman from anti-Beatles elitists upon alleged Beatles fanboys?

**Janszoon** · 01-22-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dotoar

Do people say that? Isn't that just a more or less subconscious projection of a strawman from anti-Beatles elitists upon alleged Beatles fanboys?

Do people overstate the case for the Beatles? Hell yes.

Wyrd · 01-22-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Do people overstate the case for the Beatles? Hell yes.

I've heard hundred of different "reasons" for why they are the greatest band of all time. Some of their stuff is alright, but to me it just seems like cookie cutter feel good pop music. When they got more into the hippie movement, they just became even more unbearable.

TockTockTock · 01-22-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyrd

I've heard hundred of different "reasons" for why they are the greatest band of all time. Some of their stuff is alright, but to me it just seems like cookie cutter feel good pop music. When they got more into the hippie movement, they just became even more unbearable.

I disagree. I think they became more experimental during their later years. Some people say they did that just so they can fit in with the other bands, but I have a hard time believing that. And John Lennon was one of the faces of that "hippie movement" that you spoke of, and many people find his messages inspirational. Again, I don't even like the Beatles that much, but I just don't think it's fair to make these types of criticisms.

Dotoar · 01-30-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Do people overstate the case for the Beatles? Hell yes.

Lists like that could be found about other bands as well, and frankly, that particular list is just cold facts which one may or may not use to back up their opinion. I still haven't heard anyone, besides Lennon, claim The Beatles as the second coming of christ or anything.

01-20-2011, 01:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	All of this boils down to one thing: music is personal. Everyone keeps trying to come to some consensus on how we should view certain music, but really it would just be like beating your head against a wall. For every person who thinks the Beatles were god's gift to humanity there will be 2 more trying to prove that person wrong. This same argument then gets cycled over and over. I think someone kind of went into this earlier, but music is also about context. If the Beatles were around in the time of Mozart or any "classical" composers, their music would have been completely ignored. Why? Because music was high class back then. You didn't get to listen to the good stuff unless you were royalty or stinking rich. With the advent of recording technology, being able to play music in your home no longer meant you were special. It shifted to the common man's form of entertainment. The Beatles were perfect in THAT scenario. There are also still plenty of composers around making classical music, but most people don't know who the hell they are. If we really want to start judging music in any consistent way, then we should focus strictly on how it makes us feel. Classical music can evoke the same emotions for me that a really great pop song can. Pop songs can sometimes have the complexity that would require the skill of a professional composer. You just have to take what that artist did and think "Can just anyone make something like this?". Composers surely have more theoretical knowledge than a pop musician, but I don't think that has any bearing on who is the better musician. In fact, I think people can get bogged down with the specifics when they go a lot into theory. Music becomes more rigid. Anyway...I'll stop rambling. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

01-20-2011, 02:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Screen13 Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,388	^ Agree. It will always be down to individual opinions. Last edited by Screen13; 01-20-2011 at 02:50 PM.