Alfred

This is something that always gets thrown around by classic rock fanboys and sane people alike... influence. I was just on Facebook, and saw the same old "if The Beatles never came along your favorite band wouldn't exist" spiel. I'm not going to discredit The Beatles here, but if they hadn't come along, surely someone else would have that would have broken the same ground they did. I believe my favorite bands, or at least similar ones would have come along regardless of the existence of this manifestation, if you will, of musical ground being broken.

Thoughts?

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Freebase Dali

I think it happens regardless of who does it. It's just a matter of the right ingredients at the right time.

RVCA

Yeah but just because it would happen eventually doesn't mean you shouldn't credit those who actually did it. Certainly, if you did, many great accomplishments (setting foot on the moon for example) would have gone unappreciated.

NSW

But he said he's not discrediting them...he just doesn't agree that the same musical ground wouldn't have been broken by someone else.

Its like saying that if Alexander Graham Bell wasn't born, telephones never would have been invented and perfected. Someone would have gotten around to it eventually. But no one discredits him for his accomplishment either.

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Hi.

someonecompletelyrandom

I disagree. We might assume that because we can't imagine life without them, but why does that mean it would have been figured out eventually regardless? It'd be a total butterfly effect and society would have developed in a completely different direction.

That being said, when someone is of a certain school of thought and carries that thought further, it's far more likely that eventually someone else would have carried that same thought to the point of inventing a telephone.

That's how it is with most things. People are influenced by other inventions or ideas and simply elaborate on them. So in that sense, I'm sure we'd have something very similar to the telephone (if not the telephone we all know) because Morse Code and other inventions and movements were in place and being expounded on in that time.

In regards to music, it's silly to argue that "somebody would just do it anyway" because, again, that butterfly effect would mean that it may have taken longer to happen and the musical world (and as a result, society) would have been different in many ways. So, no, your favorite band probably wouldn't exist. But you wouldn't care.

NSW

OK...if you wanna get all philosophical about it, the bolded part I would agree with. That's pretty much what I was getting at anyhow. Obviously things wouldn't have happened the exact same way, or resulted in the exact same output (whether we're talking about the telephone or your favorite band). But yeah, some variation of what we have now would surely have been conceived and expounded on.

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Freebase Dali

When I read what you wrote, you're basically saying that because of the way things happened along our timeline, that only certain bands could have come up with the ideas they had to have made the type of influence we have. My question is, why wouldn't all musically inclined human beings have that capacity? Even if it were slightly different? In fact, I'm pretty sure a huge margin of a lot of creative and groundbreaking musicians existed outside the fame that catapulted the stars we know into the musical history books and created influence for future generations of musicians. How do you know that if the unknowns had gotten a lucky break like the one's we know, that they wouldn't have met or exceeded the standards we're used to?

Not to mention the fact that these musical time periods had pretty specific influences from what was happening around them. It's a pretty safe bet that out of the multitudes of musicians and bands forming at any given time, at least a few of them would be both influenced by their surroundings and lucky enough to get signed and spammed across the world in order for other people to ever refer to them as some of our most enduring influences.

I think maybe you're looking at this too specifically. No one is arguing that a specific band comprised of specific people would or would not be here had their influences been different people. The real question is, would it really matter?

I don't think it would. The spark can come from anyone. If it's bright enough, it will catch.

someonecompletelyrandom

I won't disagree, since it's essentially the point I was getting at.

CanwllCorfe

I've never been able to gage the amount of influence that one artist has on another unless it's completely obvious. I don't say that this band would have never been around hadn't this band came about. Everyone has their own sound. Though sometimes it's pretty obvious. Like in the case of Amesoeurs. They, I believe, started the Black Metal/Shoegaze sort of genre that I've been following closely. I don't know of anyone who was doing it before them, but if anyone was, I'd like to know who. That way I can listen to them/their music for long periods of time.

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Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

Freebase Dali

@ NSW

Exactly. I'd give kudos to whoever does it, as long as it is done. I respect the folks who innovate in music and move it forward into a good place, but I don't think that if it happened to be someone else then they deserve less respect. That wouldn't make sense to me at all.