Husky McDump

Talent is talent. It depends how you display talent and what your ascetic is for talent. The Michel Angelo Batio example was a good one to show an over the top display of talent. I like extremely talented musicians that are reserved in showing it. Lyrics are an example of talent that isn't exactly about how complex and fast you can make the words. And overall songwriting ability is what draws me in. Talent is important but it is not music in itself.

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mr dave

if you can't give a sh1t about EVH's influence why did you bring it up in the first place.

as for two hand tapping there are clips of Hendrix doing it in the studio (at a much slower pace). there's also the fact that EVH has flat out said that he got the idea from seeing Led Zeppelin in concert and just cranked it up a notch.

then there's also this...



pay especially close attention to 2:42-3:02

look and sound familiar? who brought what to the table again?

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Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Eh, bad example. Couldn't really care enough about Van Halen to defend him here. My point was that even an extremely popular musician who is heralded for his technique(original or not) can learn in ways which don't involve "learning the rules".

If I wanted a better example of just a group which I feel is quite musically interesting, I'd say Boredoms. Since they're abrasive rebellious rulebreakers who, at least in my eyes, present interesting music even if a large portion of it is sarcastic. Not really sure why I reached for Van Halen of all people. Mostly, I think I was reaching for a mainstream figure who is known for technicality. Faulty example, but I don't necessarily think I made a bad point.

music_phantom13

Keep in mind this is getting a little off topic. Technical skill of the musicians on an album has nothing to do with how you're trained... Self taught or trained , you can be just as good a musician either way. Also, in my opinion, as far as technicality works there's the ability to play your instrument well but also technical skill in terms of understanding sound and how it works and how to make it with your instrument (like Thurston Moore). To answer the question, both are important to me, but I think I can listen to a lack of technical skill much easier than a lack of good songwriting. A lot of punk and hardcore musicians would be a good example.

mr dave

this is what you're not understanding from my comment - needing to learn the rules before you can break the rules is a figure of speech.

even the Boredoms clearly learned the rules of how to play their instruments the proper way. it's clear by the fact that they use normal traditional chords, they use normal traditional licks, beats, riffs, and fills. BUT they break those rules in the way they arrange those pieces and present them to the listener.

do you get it yet? or are there other rules out there besides chord shapes, scales, modes, traditional rhythms and chord progressions? how would practicing along to the radio not be the same as teaching yourself these fundamentals? just because you don't know that crazy lick you just figured out from that song is part of the phrygian scale in D doesn't mean you didn't learn part of a scale.

the more technique (rules) you learn, the more ammunition you have in your arsenal if/when you finally get bored enough with connecting dots to crack the mold and head out there.

the ONLY way it's possible to learn an instrument without learning the rules of that instrument at the same time is to get something completely foreign to you and refusing to listen to any piece of music that features that instrument or getting any sort of instruction on how to use it.

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P A N

dearest mr dave... i like the way you think and am wondering if you have some music of your own that i could find somewhere on the net.

P A N

this is for fritter, the poor bastard.

mr dave

all i've got for the intermasses is in the link below these words. horrible HORRIBLE quality but it's what you get when you record a live band off the floor straight into a laptop without so much as a mixer or anything besides the built-in mic. i'm seeing myself very slowly moving into a new direction though, not sure if i'm going to try going the bedroom producer route or just save up for a battery powered amp and see how many weird looks i can get while busking once the snow goes away.


also - Dolphy is THE man in my book

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