What Is Your Definition Of A "Sell Out"?

[rammetal7]

Post what you think a "sell out" in music is, how you think an artist can become one and if you want, an artist that you think has sold out.

To me, a sell out is somebody who betrays a cause for personal advancement.
Ex: a band says they would never sign on to a major record label, but they later did, this makes them sellouts.

I searched for a thread like this and did not find 1.
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[FaSho]

Selling out is when a band becomes popular obv

[sidewinder]

Originally Posted by TheCunningStunt

That. And a band that makes a record with 3 singles on it and a load of bland boring filler, in an attempt to sell.

I don't think anyone would purposely put bland boring filler on an album just because they feel they have 3 hit singles. They may not put much effort into it all and concentrate on some, but to purposely use filler...I don't know.

Agreed with the general consensus though, except for this but I sense sarcasm:

Originally Posted by FaSho

Selling out is when a band becomes popular obv

[TheCunningStunt]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

I don't think anyone would purposely put bland boring filler on an album just because they feel they have 3 hit singles. They may not put much effort into it all and concentrate on some, but to purposely use filler...I don't know.

Maybe they don't perceive it as filler, but I think bands deviate from their style and tone it down. Their style and energy is what made the band great, which just makes the non singles boring bland filler crap.

[FaSho]

Originally Posted by sidewinder

I sense sarcasm:

That's because this:

Originally Posted by james1

When a band changes their style in order to be accepted by a mainstream audience.

and this:

Originally Posted by rammetal7

Ex: a band says they would never sign on to a major record label, but they later did, this makes them sellouts.

Is just a more specific way of saying this:

Originally Posted by FaSho

Selling out is when a band becomes popular obv

They way I see it, who cares if an artist/band wants to make more money. Making music is their job, and in a normal job you get more money when promoted, and in the music buisness getting more popular is like getting promoted. I'm sure you guys would love to make more money at your job just by changing what you do a little bit.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by FaSho

They way I see it, who cares if an artist/band wants to make more money. Making music is their job, and in a normal job you get more money when promoted, and in the music buisness getting more popular is like getting promoted. I'm sure you guys would love to make more money at your job just by changing what you do a little bit.

Absolutely. As a professional designer myself, I have a pretty hard time criticizing someone for using their creative abilities to make money.

[Engine]

Originally Posted by TheCunningStunt

The big deal is they never said they would. They came from an underground community and sold it out. .

I don't know if the first part is true but the second part is wrong. If by 'underground community' you mean late-80s punk, well, Green Day was not respected by any underground community that I knew of. They were just another punk band who dyed their hair and sang in a fake vaguely Brit accent. The punks I knew at the time all hated Green Day - every last one. The band was a joke. I am a little surprised they ended up getting paid (cuz the music is so awfully trite and boring) but they certainly didn't sell out any worthwhile underground community

Originally Posted by FaSho

I'm sure you guys would love to make more money at your job just by changing what you do a little bit.

Yeah but, by definition, jobs suck so who cares. But if my job was to be in a famous band playing music that I write myself then I swear to you that I would play whatever I wanted without any thought about the financial reward. Then again, I probably wouldn't make much (or be famous in the first place)

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Absolutely. As a professional designer myself, I have a pretty hard time criticizing someone for using their creative abilities to make money.

I can see where you're coming from and I don't think it's wrong. But wouldn't you love your art / profession more if you could create whatever you wanted and be paid the same amount for it as by making stuff that other people tell you to make?

But that's beside the point because commercial artists are not sell-outs they are artists who make money by satisfying the needs of other people who have money to spend.

Musicians who begin by making whatever music they want but then are put in a position where they are expected to reach certain budget numbers by making music they don't want to make (or 'changing it a little bit') end up shooting themselves in the head and I can see why

[TheCunningStunt]

Originally Posted by Engine

I don't know if the first part is true but the second part is wrong. If by 'underground community' you mean late-80s punk, well, Green Day was not respected by any underground community that I knew of. They were just another punk band who dyed their hair and sang in a fake vaguely Brit accent. The punks I knew at the time all hated Green Day - every last one. The band was a joke. I am a little surprised they ended up getting paid (cuz the music is so awfully trite and boring) but they certainly didn't sell out any worthwhile underground community

I'm not disputing whether they were loved or hated, the underground punk scene in California is where they came from. Playing at a load of small clubs making records on the cheap. I myself am not bothered about when bands go big. I know someone who has actually admitted he dislikes bands if their fanbase gets too big. He's too fucking Indie for his own good. I don't care about popularity, unless the band gets it by changing their style of music. I'm not saying Green Day sold out as such, because if they didn't, they wouldn't have made Dookie which I think is a good album. (Even if it's not proper Punk) I'm just saying that signing to a major label after saying they wouldn't could be perceived as selling out.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by Engine

I can see where you're coming from and I don't think it's wrong. But wouldn't you love your art / profession more if you could create whatever you wanted and be paid the same amount for it as by making stuff that other people tell you to make?

Sure. But I'm perfectly happy to simply have an occupation that I not only enjoy but I feel is "my calling" in a way.

Originally Posted by Engine

But that's beside the point because commercial artists are not sell-outs they are artists who make money by satisfying the needs of other people who have money to spend.

Musicians who begin by making whatever music they want but then are put in a position where they are expected to reach certain budget numbers by making music they don't want to make (or 'changing it a little bit') end up shooting themselves in the head and I can see why

I see your point, but I think adapting to your audience has been a part of all forms of art since people first started making art. Michelangelo knew that when he was painting the Sistine Chapel. James Brown knew it when he was making music to move butts. This notion that artists should make "pure" art, isolated from the influence of their audience is a pretty recent invention and is kind of at odds with the role of art over the millennia of human history.

[James]

When a band changes their style in order to be accepted by a mainstream audience.