Is the Guitar Dead/Dying?

TheReverend · 03-25-2010, 10:02 PM

I personally more concerned with how it will evolve, not whether it is dying. It seems that a lot of the guitar in pop music is becoming part of the percussion. Although, in jazz thats kind of what it already was. Some of it is good, but I prefer more powerful guitar pieces and riffs and that sort of thing. Am I worrying too much and this is just a phase? I don't know.

I wish I could have been born (music wise) about ten years earlier than I was. Thats about where my taste in music is :p

Neapolitan · 03-25-2010, 10:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Conan

And it's not even as if those genres don't use guitars. Whether it be studio musicians or loops and samples, the guitars came from somewhere - thus even if there isn't as many guitar players in the world (which... it's not like there is a lack of them. I couldn't list the people I know who play guitar in a 500 page book...) the guitar is not in decline.

Well put me in that book I play guitar. I hear a lot complaints that the guitar is in decline, Janszoon made such a compelling point that I was convinced it was falling out of favour.

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Originally Posted by Janszoon

I do kind of think the guitar is falling out of favor, at least as lead instrument. It's not surprising really. I mean look at the trumpet, plenty of people still play it but it's certainly not as popular as it was sixty or seventy years ago. After reaching the apex of its popularity in about the 1970s, I think it's inevitable that the guitar is coming to a point where it will be eclipsed by something else.

So I thought the guitar was following in the footsteps of the Trumpet. I mean like really who plays a Trumpet anymore except for like people who play in Marichi bands in Mexico or folks who play Volkstümliche Musik in Germany, maybe if your in school band you might play Trumpet or something, but yeah who plays it anymore?

But from my pov the guitar is doing OK at least for now who knows what could happen in the next few months, it could be all together forgotten.
You gotta understand like 95% of the music I listen to has a guitar whether it's Classical, Jazz, Prog Rock, Classic Rock, Punk, Alt Rock, Grunge Post-Grunge. I mean I listen to Trumpet music too, I mean I just one of those rare musical nerds who keeps a flame in his heart for the Trumpet and the Guitar, but that's just me.

Freebase Dali · 03-25-2010, 10:20 PM

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Originally Posted by TheReverend

I personally more concerned with how it will evolve, not whether it is dying. It seems that a lot of the guitar in pop music is becoming part of the percussion. Although, in jazz thats kind of what it already was. Some of it is good, but I prefer more powerful guitar pieces and riffs and that sort of thing. Am I worrying too much and this is just a phase? I don't know.

I wish I could have been born (music wise) about ten years earlier than I was. Thats about where my taste in music is :p

I don't see why it would be of concern that musical instruments are used in innovative ways. If you're afraid that your style of music will no longer be made, then you should get used to it. I'm sure if you asked any senior citizen what type of music he/she prefers, it won't be Crunk, Trance, prog, or Metal. Hell, most of them probably don't like classic rock. Music changes and there's nothing you can do about it except stay listening to what you like while the rest of the world changes, or keep an open mind and listen to whatever comes along that sounds good to you.
You can still keep your taste, but it's a little unrealistic to hope that the world of music is going to grind to a stasis right where you want it to.

I don't mean to sound like I'm talking down to you, I'm just trying to put it in perspective.

boo boo · 03-25-2010, 10:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Rotter

Hard to say really, I defiantly think rock n roll's prominence has been in decline over the last few decades, in the light of the rise of R & B and other forms of manufactured music.

Hmmm I'm feeling philisophical so I'll argue four points for its decline, 1)technology, 2) Diminishing talent 3) the prominence of counter culture and 4) changing demographics. People can freely agree or disagree with me

R&B? I wouldn't say that's more popular than rock music, a lot of stuff that's called R&B nowadays really shouldn't be called R&B.

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Next came new wave which pretty much dominated the 80's with the synthesizer, there was of course many new wave rock bands (the police, U2 ect) as well the general prominence of pop rock on the air waves.

You do realise U2 and The Police are two guitar dominated bands who hardly ever used synthesizers right?

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The 80's also saw the rise of a musical genre that many would argue has surpassed rock in popularity. Hip Hop (Rap) and R & B. Hip Hop of course doesn't use guitars but rather relies on turntables, but more importantly samplers.

Not all of it, some rap groups such as The Roots actually used live musicians, including a guitarist.

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Rap's popularity would of course decline, but its legacy of samplers and beats would be incorporated by R & B artists such as Britney Spears, Beyonce, Bobby Brown, Justin Timberlake ect. The era of manufactured music was in full swing.

Rap's popularity has never declined.

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Diminishing Talent

Technology has also brought about rock n roll (the guitar's decline) by contributing to diminishing talent in the music industry.

One reason why we don't have any Jimi Hendrix's or Jimmy Pages today is because they are all to busy playing Nintendo in their parents basement.

As a gamer I take offense from this statement.

The reason we don't have any Hendrix's or Page's is not because we have a decline of talented musicians but rather just about everything you can do with a guitar has been done already, in the 60s and 70s, rock music was still very young so naturally there were a lot of guys with fresh ideas, now the genre is old and wore out. There's so many f*cking rock bands today it's ridiculous, it's pretty much impossible to be completely original.

We have too many crappy generic rock bands, if video games like guitar hero is distracting more people from starting their own Nickelback cover band than I really don't see that as being much of a loss.

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Back in the 60's and 70's there were not as many entertainment distractions unless you liked to play hours of pinball. Today we live in an era of mass media technology, seductive video games, text messages and a million other distractions to divert your time away from learning the guitar. Afterall its much less time consuming to learn to use a sampler than a muscial instrument.

It's also really ignorant to state that the only reason there are so many electronic musicians is because they are too lazy to take up guitar. The truth is there is just no reason why every other f*cking musician should be a guitarist when there's so many kinds of instruments to choose from.

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The advent of technology has also helped the onset of diminishing music talent in an other way. Back in the 70''s if you were in a popular disco or funk band you had to know how to sing and how to play. Donna Summer, Gloria ***nor, Kool & the Gang ect, could all very much sing and play.

You don't have to have musical talent today, you just have to have the look. Britney Spears can't sing and she doesn't need to. They can just run her vocals through pro tools, alter the pitch of her vocals and she sounds like gold. So there is no need to hide the real singer in the C & C music video, when you can make anyone sound good, run thier vocals through musical software, and have them do what Madonna does at live shows. Lip synch.

I can't argue with any of these points.

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The prominence of counter culture

There is one thing that the guitar can do that no other instrument can. Not the synthesizer, and not the 808 beat. And that is make a very heavy aggressive sound which has resulted in the birth of heavy metal and punk.

I don't agree with this at all, the synthesizer can indeed have a very aggressive sound. A lot of prog bands did things with synthesizers that if they done the same with guitar they could have easily been considered proto metal.

And a lot of electronic music can be very very intense.

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For better or worse alternative rock, punk and metal have really come to dominate most of rock music today. It tends to be either angry or melancholy music, which is not suited for top 40. In some respect I think punks popularity has to do with declining talent, but that's just a personal opinon. Unless thier is a revival of pop rock bands like Def Leppard, Forieghner, The Cars, Eddie Money ect. I can' t see a widespread rock revival.

In that case I'm quite grateful there isn't one.

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Changing Demographics

I'm from Canada so things might be different in the States where there is a growing aspanic population that largely shares the same culture. Despite its roots in blues, rock has always been the cultural realm of cacuasions whose birthrates are largely in decline. As Europe and North America shift to more muti cultural societies, its natural that the market share of rock is going to decline, if its not equally embraced by those immigrating from non western countries. As rock declines than so to will the guitar.

First off I want to know where you are getting these sources from, I find these comments to be rather xenophonic and insensitive, for one rock music is not only popular in America, it's popular in many countries from around the world.

I'm pretty sure rock music is popular among the latino community.

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For me personally I think the guitar will remain prominent if it remains a technologically driven instrument. (IE my prefernce these days is electronic music, but learning to play the synth (Piano) is a pain. I much rather have a guitar or bass that gives me the option of a thousand different synth sounds.

Yeah guitar synthesizers are awesome, I don't know why they're not used more often.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 03-25-2010, 10:54 PM

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Originally Posted by TheReverend

Although, in jazz thats kind of what it already was.

Ehh... it's the focal point of a lot of jazz I listen to anyway.

Neapolitan · 03-25-2010, 11:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Rotter

Sure you basically reinforced what I thought. Shifting demographics was my last argument and the most minor of them all. Overall, I think the guitar is in decline because of technology,

What I meant to say even though in America there is an influx of Spanish speaking people they still have music that's just like American Alt Rock (or Hip Hop) and that the guitar wouldn't be effect by that.

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Rotter

and as I said it will be revitalized if its given the technology of a synth.

The guitars can already interface with synths via midi.

The way I look at it is like each musical era is a Paradigm shift that involves not only cultural forces but also the arrival or development of different musical instruments and that in turn effects the musical style and sound. The people's cultural background influence the music style, but the musical instruments themselve influence how the music sounds. So new instruments help create new musical styles.

When Sears and Roebuck sold a inexpensive acoustic guitar in their catalogue there was Paradigm shift in country music with Country Blues and Appalachian Folk music. Before the fiddle and banjo were popluar, but the guitar found favour with the musicians, and the instrument was important in developing the music we know as Folk and Country Blues.

The arrival of the electric guitar was a paradigm shift in almost all of American music really. The electric guitar had an effect on genres that existed before it like Jazz and Blues and Country, but it also help start a new genre all together, Rock and Roll.

Hip Hip music uses looping and sampling and drum machine, two turn tables and a microphone. looping and sampling been around for a while but not used totally in the same way but compare to other instruments it was somewhat new the time hip hop started out. I've only heard very few guitar used but could be consider a mixing of genres or an influnce of another genre.

To say the guitar in general will die out is sorta foolish because it is used in so many different genres that all of them have to die as well. Before you see the decline of the guitar you would have to see the decline of Bossa Nova, Flameco, Blue Grass, Old Timey, Classical guitar music, Country, Heavy Metal, not to mention Rock. Even if the guitar does rule the Pop charts somewhere in the world someone is playing a guitar at any given moment.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 03-26-2010, 12:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Rotter

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/ar...ic/30sann.html

That article is from 2007. It was a little dip in sales that people in the industry whinged about for a couple of months.

mr dave · 03-26-2010, 01:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

I'm sure if you asked any senior citizen what type of music he/she prefers, it won't be Crunk, Trance, prog, or Metal.

i'm not even halfway through my 30s and can't stand half those styles...

i'm not going to multiquote a full page of stuff but just to hit on some of the highlights i'm seeing...

- i only wish new wave truly dominated the 80s, that would have meant no poison, warrant, extreme, bon jovi, whitesnake, and all the other poofy hair metal that actually DID dominate the charts.

- as for midi guitars and basses they might not be common place on a stage but if you try to claim you can't find one it's only because you haven't actually talked to a clerk about a product that's been on the market since the 80s. whether it's a roland guitar synth that attaches to a regular guitar or newer fare like an ultra pricey ($3000+) moog guitar, they're out there.

**Janszoon** · 03-26-2010, 06:50 AM

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Originally Posted by mr dave

- i only wish new wave truly dominated the 80s, that would have meant no poison, warrant, extreme, bon jovi, whitesnake, and all the other poofy hair metal that actually DID dominate the charts.

Yeah, I have to assume anyone who thinks new wave dominated the 80s didn't actually live through that decade.

TheReverend · 03-26-2010, 07:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Conan

Ehh... it's the focal point of a lot of jazz I listen to anyway.

Im talking about jazz a little older than you listen to most likely- my point was it started out as a very percussive instrument in jazz and evolved into a more prominent role.

03-25-2010, 10:02 PM	#51 (permalink)
TheReverend Strong and Quite Strong Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: When you get out on the interstate, take a left after the gas station Posts: 64	I personally more concerned with how it will evolve, not whether it is dying. It seems that a lot of the guitar in pop music is becoming part of the percussion. Although, in jazz thats kind of what it already was. Some of it is good, but I prefer more powerful guitar pieces and riffs and that sort of thing. Am I worrying too much and this is just a phase? I don't know. I wish I could have been born (music wise) about ten years earlier than I was. Thats about where my taste in music is :p __________________ One day dude, one day I'm just gonna get off the bus, an I'm gonna run into the woods an I'm never gonna come back. And when I come back, I'm gonna be the night master