MusicTyro

I would like to get some input from the community about how you may have learned music theory and ear training.

Were you self-taught? Did you get private instruction or other instrument training?

Have you been fine without theory if you never formally learned?

Did you pick up on it right away, or did you have to really work at it?

What would've helped you pick up on it faster?

Was it a single method or did you learn from multiple experiences?

No need to answer the questions exactly as posted. Just some of the information I'm trying to gain.

I'd like to get as many different viewpoints as possible, as I'm going to be publishing a series of articles/learning tools on the subject.

Thanks!
Bret P.

LoathsomePete

Depending on your learning style theory can either be fairly simple or excruciatingly frustrating. I'm horrible at math so I found it to be incredibly complicated and thus sought the guidance of a teacher. He was able to explain it in a way that was easier for my muddled brain to understand. I would highly suggest going to the teacher route, that way you can ask questions immediately, rather than having to seek them out yourself. On the flip side though if money is tight and you'd rather not pay a teacher every month, a book is a good way to go, but I would highly recommend trying a few, pick up a couple different ones in both music stores, book stores, and even libraries to see if you can find an authors writing style that works for you.

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VEGANGELICA

Hi Bret,

Your question is one that interests me and should give rise to a fascinating article, since people and their learning styles and abilities are so different! I grew up playing Suzuki violin beginning at age 8, where the emphasis as you probably know is on hearing music and playing what you hear, before learning to read music. My Susuki teacher never taught much about music theory (such as what it means to say music is in a certain "key," or why different keys are major, minor, or named as they are). However, I certainly learned how to read music. And though I've given half-hearted attempts to learn and remember what "A major" means, I actually have never really experienced a pressing need to know this, and have managed to play in an orchestra for over 15 years quite successfully! I can hear and feel the difference between major and minor, and I can tell when the music shifts keys, even if I don't know what key it is in!

My father, who learned violin late in life, is very different than I am in his approach to music. He is forever irked (slightly) when we read music together and I tell him I have no idea what key it is in...I just look at the sharps that are in the music, and then remember them as I play, by which I mean I remember the sound of, say, the F sharp, and so play it throughout the piece because it "sounds" right. This makes changing to keys that have, for example, 5 or 6 sharps not too difficult, because once I play the first several measures, I simply "feel" the sound of it and so continue to play along happily, completely oblivious to what key I'm in.

My father is a physicist, and so he knows musical theory like a physicist does: he know all about the frequencies and fifths and thirds, etc. Tell him a key, and he can tell you all the notes and which are sharp or flat. He also has perfect pitch, so you can tell him a note and he can hum it to you (although he is losing that ability with age). He just can't figure out how I can sight read or remember music without knowing any of that, which always amuses me.

The only case so far where I've wished I had spent time learning what notes are in different keys is while singing recently in a musical. We were tranposing a song into a different key to shift it into my vocal range, and the pianist told me to sing the song in key so-and-so. And so I had to say, uh, what note do I begin on? He told me the answer, and then (after being given the note on the piano) I could sing the transposed song just fine.

To summarize, while I know the music theory of reading music, I don't use knowledge of keys or scales to figure out what to play. I just read the music, "feel" the key (whatever it is), and add in accidentals when they occur. When making up music, I also just do it by "feel." I don't think, "Okay, I'm going to start in the key of this and then jump to the key of that."

I hope my (long) account helps you. As you can see, I'm someone who plays mostly by "feel" rather than by using intellectual knowledge. So, the Suzuki method, which emphasizes listening and making music to begin with, was a perfect fit for me...or perhaps it made me become the sort of "theory-lite" musician I am?

--Erica

EDIT: I also learned to play B-flat clarinet growing up, and my dad always said playing such an instrument would have driven him bonkers because the note you read on the page is not the one that you produce out of the instrument. Since I didn't have perfect pitch or much music theory, I wasn't bothered by this at all. I simply knew what fingering to use for whatever note was shown, and thus it made no difference to me that the note on the staff was a "C" and the note that came out of the clarinet was a B flat. Actually, heh heh, I didn't know that this was what was going on until TODAY when I just looked it up online...but that didn't prevent me from playing clarinet very well back in my clarinet-playing days! Back then I just had a vague notion that the sound wasn't the same as the actual note shown on the page. And since I was/am always quite good at math and continued on through multi-variable calculus and beyond in college, I don't think for me my lack of music theory knowledge relates to math ability. Perhaps it relates more to my tendency to forget people's names but remember their faces and voices?

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DearJenny

I spent 8 years in school playing cello and singing, so ear training just sort of came to me.

I didn't have private instruction really, it was in a class setting. I took two semesters of "rock and roll history" in which we discussed a lot of the terms, and I took two semesters of music theory, where we did much of the practice, along with ear training that we did in my choir class.

Starting music at age 11 definitely helped me pick up on it quicker, but I still had to work at scales, especially effing awkward scales with raised notes and ****.

Whats tough though is after taking so many music classes, I can't just listen to music anymore, I have to pick it apart, whats the time signature or the key? But it does give me more appreciation for the bands who actually put thought behind their work.

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mr dave

Were you self-taught? - yes

Did you get private instruction or other instrument training? - not really. my uncle taught me how to read a chord book and pointed out the major and minor shapes i should learn on my first day with a guitar, and a friend's older brother taught me barre chord theory. everything else came from Guitar World magazines for the most part.

Have you been fine without theory if you never formally learned? - absolutely, but just because i didn't have formal training doesn't mean i haven't figured out or taught myself various elements of theory as well.

Did you pick up on it right away, or did you have to really work at it? - i was 16 and already had a job when i started so i was self disciplined enough by then to be able to pick it up relatively quickly but it still required work.

What would've helped you pick up on it faster? - having other people to play with.

Was it a single method or did you learn from multiple experiences? - only morons limit their learning experiences or methods. my initial technique came from using tabs to learn how to play along to my favourite albums from the day (OH NO!). when i got to college i finally met people to play with and developed my improvisational skills while establishing some level of theoretical knowledge to support it.

Thanks! - you're welcome!

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music_phantom13

I started playing piano when I was like 7 or something and I took lessons for a couple years, but never learned anything music theory related otuside of terms and how to read music (no scales, chords, etc.)

Then I started playing guitar a bit later, and learnedhow to play barre chords and so on, which helped me understand theory somewhat better I guess. I also learned my major and minor scale on guitar, but because I have a really hard time reading music for guitar and seeing frets as notes that was pretty much useless. I just used tabs and so on to play songs I liked, never really learned to much as far as improvisation goes. A few years later I started getting into keyboard, and I've been trying to learn music theory. But, I don't really think about it when I make music. I like to just make cool experimental glitchy electronic type songs or ethereal stuff, and I just start playing and roll with it. If that's the type of thing you want to do, learning the theory to play the notes isn't nearly as important as learning to use effects and so on to manipulate sound and knowing what you want to add to your song. However, if you want to play jazz, you better know everything about music theory or your ****ed. So it really depends on what you want to play.

TheBig3

I'd answer it this way. its easiest to learn while learning an instrument. ou're going to get all three methods of learning; reading, hearing, and doing.

Musical theory isn't something you'll use much at first, but consider it a fast pass to the very edge of musical advancement. like everything else Humans write down, it lets you cut to the chace of figuring things out that have not been done before.

Its also an agreed upon set of terminology, so if you're talking to other musicians about what you want, thoery makes it less of a guessing game.

Sting once said " If you have a major chord followed by a relative minor, you're not original." That probably doesn't mean a damn thing to you unless you know the theory behind it.

It really depends what you're looking for. From the original post (OP) you said you wanted to learn "theory." Without practical applications its equivelent to learning a language that you never speak outside of class. Its tough to recall things without using them.

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MusicTyro

Thanks everyone for the replies so far!

Of course I welcome further discussion on the topic.

Just a little background on me, so everyone knows where I'm coming from. I started playing piano at 8, and continued on through high school.

I was taught theory through instruction but never really applied it because I was more concerned on playing very advanced pieces for recitals (showmanship and technical presentation was always more important to me than theory)

I was a music major at Belmont University for a year, majoring in vocal performance, so harmony and ear training was taught in a class setting. You'd think I'd be able to read music better by now, but I tend to play better by chords and compose by ear, than by formal reading.

I think it's safe to say the general consensus is that theory is best taught through practical application, and that it can be a tool but not the begin all, end all of musicianship.

Despite being able to match pitches fairly easily as a singer, I still struggle with reading music and distinguishing intervals (ear training and sight singing in the classroom was a hopeless nightmare for me).

Any more input on the subject? Great discussion everyone. The articles I'm writing are geared towards the novice.

Petro

I started playing the piano when I was around 8 or 9 I guess.
I was never really into the technical performance, I mostly enjoyed experimenting with chords and rythm. (Still am, really)
When later attending the music gymnasium, this approach turned out to have it pros and cons.
The theory always fell very easy for me, understanding composition and arrangement. Listening tests as well (determening tone intervals etc).
On the other hand I never got the hang of sheet reading. By dropping the classical piano studies and moving over to jazz piano, this shortcoming was no longer a problem.

I believe that knowing your way around the piano/keyboard is the easiest way to understand those parts of music theory that has to do with harmonies, chords etc.
In fact most music academies has piano lessons as an obligatory part of their education plan.