Race/gender/sex. orientation and musical stereotyping

Urban Hat€monger ? · 09-02-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dayvan Cowboy

eh, it was my elementary school, and all kids thought that. Now, I appreciate school much more, because it means I'll be able to go to college and get a job I'll actually like.

Thanks

Oh to be young & naive again.

ImmortalDiotima · 09-02-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrsta

So you're basically saying that you're accepting the notion that girls do have worse taste in music. You know, I once got a pm on last.fm from some guy expressing his disbelief that a female listens to the kinds of music I listen to. I thought he was full of shit, so I told him to look around last.fm and he will find many, many girls with very similar taste to mine. I don't have the need to feel like an exception, because I don't accept that prejudice that girls have worse taste in music, in the first place. But I do believe that passionate music lovers of both genders are an exception from the mass music consumerism of general public.

1) when we are talking about stereotypes, it doesn't necessarily mean that we think they are true. We are just acknowledging the fact that the stereotype exists. So, I may say that I consider myself to be an exception to the perceived stereotype, independent of its ultimate truth or falsity.

2) That being said, I had previously stated that I do indeed agree with the idea that girls generally have worse taste in music. It is true that passionate music lovers are the exception from the norm... and I also think that (from my experience) it is true that there are more passionate male music lovers than females. If you need any evidence, take a look at this and most other music forums on the internet and you will see that the majority of members are males. The same goes for last.fm.

3) Yes, there are many many women with great taste in music. Don't, however, make the mistake of thinking that many = most. The fact that there are many girls with great taste in music does not undermine the idea that there are more men with great taste in music. Or at least (since taste is rather subjective) an intense passion for it.

dankrsta · 09-02-2010, 03:05 PM

As I understood from your last two paragraphs, under 2) and 3), it all boils down to numbers - how many guys have good taste and how many girls. That line of thinking will inevitably lead us to the conclusion that there are more men in the majority of activities that demand passion, obsession and time. I think you mentioned in one of your previous posts that men are more obsessive in nature. I might agree with that. Or I might say that men tend to be mentally more easily liberated from the confinements of everyday practical life and thus have more energy for obsessions. That's the main difference for me. It may be biological or sociological, but probably a bit of both.

But, when a woman has the will and energy to invest time in developing an extensive musical taste, do you still think her taste will be inferior to that of man's? Or in other words: Do you think that a true female music lover's taste is inferior to that of a true male music lover? That is the real question of taste: Are women just as capable in having a great taste as men? 'How many' is a different kind of question. It asks us why aren't women more obsessive and why aren't they willing to invest time?

ImmortalDiotima · 09-02-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dankrsta

As I understood from your last two paragraphs, under 2) and 3), it all boils down to numbers - how many guys have good taste and how many girls. That line of thinking will inevitably lead us to the conclusion that there are more men in the majority of activities that demand passion, obsession and time.

I'm not really sure what you are arguing here. I agree with the claim others have made that in general, fewer women have good taste in music than men. So yes... it's a numbers game. It was never anything else.

I'm confused by your final line... are you saying that thinking in terms of numbers will inevitably lead us to the conclusion that there are more men in the activity BECAUSE it is an activity that involves obsession and men are obviously more obsessive?
Or are you saying, literally, what you said, which is that thinking in terms of numbers will lead us to the conclusion that men are more involved in activities that demand obsession.
Because thinking in terms of numbers does not reasonably lead to the conclusion that men are more involved in activities that demand obsession... the conclusion and premise of that argument have nothing to do with each other.

Quote:

I think you mentioned in one of your previous posts that men are more obsessive in nature.

I was referencing a previous poster's claim that men are more obsessive. I wasn't claiming that. It was an if/then.

Quote:

But, when a woman has the will and energy to invest time in developing an extensive musical taste, do you still think her taste will be inferior to that of man's?

I never claimed that when two people of good taste are compared the man will always beat out the woman. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. All anyone said was that there are more men with good taste in music than women. As I said before, taste is subjective so I'm not sure how you would determine that anyway. But if we're talking about two people with passion for music, no I don't think that a man's passion is always deeper than a woman's and I don't think that that should be inferred from what I have said.
What has been clearly stated is simply that there are more men who are passionate about music than there are women. The possible explanation has been offered that men are simply more obsessive in nature. Nothing else.

ImmortalDiotima · 09-02-2010, 06:17 PM

Looking back I can see how you might have derived your interpretation from my statement in the beginning of 2) that "women generally have worse taste in music" but I think I made it clear that I meant in numbers and not comparatively on an individual basis.

fritter · 09-02-2010, 06:35 PM

Musical stereotyping is inconsequential. What's the worst that could happen if you assumed a gay person likes pop divas, a black person likes rap, or a hot girl likes Top 40?

homesick.alien · 09-03-2010, 02:54 AM

I'm an ABC (Australian Born Chinese) and people are always really surprised when they find out what I listen to. They think that I listen to either emo/pop punk (ew), Top40

ew), or classical (I like classical though but its not my favourite genre). When I tell them I love Pink Floyd or Tool or even Radiohead they are always taken aback.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImmortalDiotima

Looking back I can see how you might have derived your interpretation from my statement in the beginning of 2) that "women generally have worse taste in music" but I think I made it clear that I meant in numbers and not comparatively on an individual basis.

I think it may be because mainstream pop is generally targeted at young women. Women are more likely to follow trends then men (just look at the fashion. Women's clothing can have complete 180 turnarounds and mens fashion stay pretty constant.) therefore, they are easier to market crap to.

I don't want to sound sexist, but thats really how it is.

ImmortalDiotima · 09-03-2010, 11:50 AM

Quote:

I'm an ABC (Australian Born Chinese) and people are always really surprised when they find out what I listen to. They think that I listen to either emo/pop punk :vomits:, Top40 :vomits:, or classical (I like classical though but its not my favourite genre). When I tell them I love Pink Floyd or Tool or even Radiohead they are always taken aback.

You don't listen to William Hung??????

Quote:

I think it may be because mainstream pop is generally targeted at young women. Women are more likely to follow trends then men (just look at the fashion. Women's clothing can have complete 180 turnarounds and mens fashion stay pretty constant.) therefore, they are easier to market crap to.

Very astute and almost too obvious! I can't believe no one has said this before. I'd say you're pretty accurate.

ImmortalDiotima · 09-03-2010, 11:53 AM

On that note, I am a die hard metal head who loves my music as heavy as possible and the man I'm dating loves what he calls "electro-rock." It's sort of... rock style electronica like ratatat.
He and some of our friends are always remarking on how much "gayer" his choice of music is than mine. Especially since he and our other friend actually prefer bands with female singers (Metric is my friend's fave band).
Bustin stereotypes left n right

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 09-03-2010, 01:20 PM

The sexism against our own gender is absolutely appalling.

09-02-2010, 03:05 PM	#73 (permalink)
dankrsta ... Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,776	As I understood from your last two paragraphs, under 2) and 3), it all boils down to numbers - how many guys have good taste and how many girls. That line of thinking will inevitably lead us to the conclusion that there are more men in the majority of activities that demand passion, obsession and time. I think you mentioned in one of your previous posts that men are more obsessive in nature. I might agree with that. Or I might say that men tend to be mentally more easily liberated from the confinements of everyday practical life and thus have more energy for obsessions. That's the main difference for me. It may be biological or sociological, but probably a bit of both. But, when a woman has the will and energy to invest time in developing an extensive musical taste, do you still think her taste will be inferior to that of man's? Or in other words: Do you think that a true female music lover's taste is inferior to that of a true male music lover? That is the real question of taste: Are women just as capable in having a great taste as men? 'How many' is a different kind of question. It asks us why aren't women more obsessive and why aren't they willing to invest time? __________________ Last.fm

09-02-2010, 06:35 PM	#76 (permalink)
fritter Music Addict Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 86	Musical stereotyping is inconsequential. What's the worst that could happen if you assumed a gay person likes pop divas, a black person likes rap, or a hot girl likes Top 40? __________________ (that weird meatball-looking thing in my avatar is an apple fritter) Some songs I made: Yo Mama Tom-Toms

09-02-2010, 06:17 PM	#75 (permalink)
ImmortalDiotima Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Santa Cruz and Petaluma California Posts: 95	Looking back I can see how you might have derived your interpretation from my statement in the beginning of 2) that "women generally have worse taste in music" but I think I made it clear that I meant in numbers and not comparatively on an individual basis.

09-03-2010, 11:53 AM	#79 (permalink)
ImmortalDiotima Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Santa Cruz and Petaluma California Posts: 95	On that note, I am a die hard metal head who loves my music as heavy as possible and the man I'm dating loves what he calls "electro-rock." It's sort of... rock style electronica like ratatat. He and some of our friends are always remarking on how much "gayer" his choice of music is than mine. Especially since he and our other friend actually prefer bands with female singers (Metric is my friend's fave band). Bustin stereotypes left n right

09-03-2010, 01:20 PM	#80 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	The sexism against our own gender is absolutely appalling.