Worst album covers

Blank. · 08-27-2016, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Which is why we get back to the question of whether you would consider a by the book factory made chair Art in the same sense one of the previously posted thrones are Art

They are both art. One lacks integrity in its artistic endeavor and the other doesn't. But it's still art.

Terrapin_Station · 08-27-2016, 05:03 PM

Lots of stuff to comment on here:

* There's a craftsmanship aspect to all art. (Also, related to the first comment on that, I do a lot of work as a studio musician.)

* Literature is one of the arts.

* Re the art/commerce dichotomy, almost no one who does music for any length of time and/or who makes money from music (a) doesn't want to make money from their music, and (b) doesn't want to also do things that are artistically satisfying to them. In other words, almost anyone putting any serious time into it wants both from it: money and artistic satisfaction. This includes most of the artists I've seen elphenor champion (and I've worked professionally in the hardcore punk, indie and metal scenes; I've worked in a $h|t-ton of different genres, actually, and I've worked with people mentioned in threads here.)

* The vast majority of people playing whatever music they are known for LIKE that music--it's artistically satisfying to them. It's usually not all they like, but they usually like it, no matter how bad or boring or cheesy or run of the mill or whatever you think it is.

* There seems to be a misconception that people doing more avant-garde stuff can't be professionals/don't care about making a living from their work. John Zorn, Merzbow, Meredith Monk, Roscoe Mitchell etc. aren't working other jobs and don't want to.

* elphenor's views are so stereotypically "punk hipster" that you'd think she/he was a zine caricature cartoon of that.

Key · 08-27-2016, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrapin_Station

Lots of stuff to comment on here:

* There's a craftsmanship aspect to all art. (Also, related to the first comment on that, I do a lot of work as a studio musician.)

* Literature is one of the arts.

* Re the art/commerce dichotomy, almost no one who does music for any length of time and/or who makes money from music (a) doesn't want to make money from their music, and (b) doesn't want to also do things that are artistically satisfying to them. In other words, almost anyone putting any serious time into it wants both from it: money and artistic satisfaction. This includes most of the artists I've seen elphenor champion (and I've worked professionally in the hardcore punk, indie and metal scenes; I've worked in a $h|t-ton of different genres, actually, and I've worked with people mentioned in threads here.)

* The vast majority of people playing whatever music they are known for LIKE that music--it's artistically satisfying to them. It's usually not all they like, but they usually like it, no matter how bad or boring or cheesy or run of the mill or whatever you think it is.

* There seems to be a misconception that people doing more avant-garde stuff can't be professionals/don't care about making a living from their work. John Zorn, Merzbow, Meredith Monk, Roscoe Mitchell etc. aren't working other jobs and don't want to.

* elphenor's views are so stereotypically "punk hipster" that you'd think she/he was a zine caricature cartoon of that.

This!!

**Frownland** · 08-29-2016, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't give a **** about how sarcasm doesn't translate well to online. You're all ****ing stupid.

Even the greats aren't immune. I know you don't like metal, but it's my bag so I know more about it than other genres so **** you. Anyway, Slayer made five classic albums in a row (plus a classic EP) and have maintained at least a moderate level of quality ever since. Yet you hear stories and read articles about the drummer getting fired cause he found out that Kerry King has been short changing the rest of the band financially, and their guitarist and semi-main songwriter dies but the band continue on with only two original members, cause what the **** are Slayer gonna do if they decide to go the honest route and disband?

Kerry King probably has all the job qualifications that I do: a high school education, sketchy work experience, and a general lack of giving a **** about maintaining a presentable appearance by society's standards. Kerry King and I could equally compete for the same McDonald's job.

Kerry King's fallback is snake breeding and selling.

~~MicShazam~~ · 08-29-2016, 01:08 PM

In my opinion, it doesn't really matter what the objective of the author was. The result is all we can ever be sure about anyway.

Most entertaintment media products are art, but not necessarily good art.

What's good art? Whatever you like...

Key · 08-29-2016, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

music as a learned skill or craft is different than music as purely an Art

Yeah, but they're still the exact same thing.

**Frownland** · 08-30-2016, 09:02 AM

Wait, it's not traditional therefore it's not art? Fuck outta here with that nonsense.

Blank. · 08-30-2016, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

A studio musician and like Billy Childish or Jad Fair are not the same thing

and what they create isn't the same thing

One of them is a tradesmen you pay in exchange for their trade, they often won't even be credited anymore than you would credit a drum machine, they aren't considered to have written anything, they don't receive any of the rights or royalties for the music

The other is an artist who uses sound as one of several mediums who's really not concerned with the product even being listenable in a traditional sense

Liner notes.

Key · 08-30-2016, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

A studio musician and like Billy Childish or Jad Fair are not the same thing

and what they create isn't the same thing

One of them is a tradesmen you pay in exchange for their trade, they often won't even be credited anymore than you would credit a drum machine, they aren't considered to have written anything, they don't receive any of the rights or royalties for the music

The other is an artist who uses sound as one of several mediums who's really not concerned with the product even being listenable in a traditional sense

I mean, you're wrong, but that's fine.

Terrapin_Station · 08-30-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

"craftily done"

what is this even supposed to mean

Exihibiting both the technical and expressive skills (re abilities of playing both individually and with other musicians in terms of things like phrasing, dynamics, groove, etc.) of seasoned musicians per the social standards of the instrument/genre/etc. in question.

Quote:

is No Wave "craftily done"

It's something that particular musicians do or not. It's not something that's the case with an entire genre or not.

08-30-2016, 09:02 AM	#867 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Wait, it's not traditional therefore it's not art? Fuck outta here with that nonsense. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

08-27-2016, 05:03 PM	#862 (permalink)
Terrapin_Station Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: NYC Man Posts: 877	Lots of stuff to comment on here: * There's a craftsmanship aspect to all art. (Also, related to the first comment on that, I do a lot of work as a studio musician.) * Literature is one of the arts. * Re the art/commerce dichotomy, almost no one who does music for any length of time and/or who makes money from music (a) doesn't want to make money from their music, and (b) doesn't want to also do things that are artistically satisfying to them. In other words, almost anyone putting any serious time into it wants both from it: money and artistic satisfaction. This includes most of the artists I've seen elphenor champion (and I've worked professionally in the hardcore punk, indie and metal scenes; I've worked in a $h\|t-ton of different genres, actually, and I've worked with people mentioned in threads here.) * The vast majority of people playing whatever music they are known for LIKE that music--it's artistically satisfying to them. It's usually not all they like, but they usually like it, no matter how bad or boring or cheesy or run of the mill or whatever you think it is. * There seems to be a misconception that people doing more avant-garde stuff can't be professionals/don't care about making a living from their work. John Zorn, Merzbow, Meredith Monk, Roscoe Mitchell etc. aren't working other jobs and don't want to. * elphenor's views are so stereotypically "punk hipster" that you'd think she/he was a zine caricature cartoon of that.

08-29-2016, 01:08 PM	#865 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	In my opinion, it doesn't really matter what the objective of the author was. The result is all we can ever be sure about anyway. Most entertaintment media products are art, but not necessarily good art. What's good art? Whatever you like...