thirtiesgirl

Huh? s_k wrote that Beth is slutty in his post. Why the judgment? He knows nothing of her sexual history.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

The Fascinating Turnip

I found your attitude arrogant, defensive and unnecessary. I'm not sure who you mean with "You Guys", but that aside I beleive Zaqarbal merely clarified your initial question about the thread being about the beauty of a woman's voice or their physique. After that you merely started picking a fight, even if the argument was fairly civil in the beginning.
The tone you took just now was perfectly adequate, nothing against that, you just explained your cause.

s_k was clearly referring to a member of Vengaboys, he has no idea who Beth Ditto is, as you would notice if you'd read his post properly.

thirtiesgirl

Ooh, I've been deemed "perfectly adequate" by a guy. I've done my job and obtained a modicum of acceptance. Goody. My question was why do you find my 'attitude' "arrogant, defensive and unnecessary." You haven't answered that question, merely repeated what you said before. And the answer Zaq gave me as to the point of this thread was what I suspected: it's a thread where most guys post pics of women they find physically attractive, and it has very little to do with admiration of their musical talent, creativity, personality or world view. I'm sure there are some guys who have posted pics of women in this thread that they admire for more than their looks, but the majority is all about the physical.

While I know I'm not going to change the male gaze or guys' looks-based assessment of women, what I can do is present an alternative to the many posts in this thread that are all about looks by posting pics of women with a variety of body shapes, women who I admire not just for their looks, but for their accomplishments, their creativity and talent. Which is what I did, and was then questioned by Zaq on my choice to include Beth Ditto because he doesn't find her physically attractive. Zaq further bolstered his assessment that Beth is unattractive because she's fat by posting several 'comparison pics' of Beth and thinner women. As I wrote above, if Zaq's intentions were not to offer pictorial commentary on Beth's weight as the reason he finds her unattractive, why not then post 'comparison pics' of Beth and Mama Cass, or Beth and the women from Gravy Train, Beth and Adele? Why choose slender women as his point of comparison? I've played this game for too long and seen too much sizeism disguised as other things, so I can see it when it's there. If Zaq doesn't find Beth attractive, that's his prerogative. But there's no need to continuously maintain what we already know to be true, that the general public thinks all fat people are unattractive, lazy, slovenly, unambitious, etc. Fat people receive that message every day of their lives. It might be nice to be able to have some places where we can go where that message is not reinforced, for a change.

Perhaps it's a language issue, since s_k is not a native English speaker. Regardless, I don't care who he's calling a slut, whether it's Beth or anyone else. Calling anyone a slut is unnecessary. We don't need more slut shaming going on.

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The Fascinating Turnip

You must have some sort of inferiority complex.
You were throwing around accusations of sexism and sizeism while you stood in your little pedestal.
This thread IS for people to post pictures of women (who happen to be musicians) they find physically attractive, it's not supposed to have anything to do with their talent. There are other threads for that, and it doesn't make much sense for me to go and completely derail a thread just because I don't agree with it. I'm sure there's already a thread in which this particular subject is being or was discussed.

I didn't deem you perfectly adequate, i meant that that tone was polite and I appreciated it. I don't like thinly veiled insults and you've been doing that in this thread for quite a while, being condescending and belittling everyone else.

Edit: And no, it was certainly not a language issue, don't blame your faults on someone else, you're being extremely obnoxious.

thirtiesgirl

Hon, I know what this thread is about. After looking through a handful of posts, it became patently obvious. My intent in posting the pics I posted was not to derail the thread, but to present an alternative. There are plenty of threads on this forum and others, all about pics of women who guys find physically attractive. There are a million porn sites dedicated to that very thing, so if that's what you want to see and post, that's where you should do it. Unfortunately, it occurs on non-porn sites all too frequently, so I think it's valuable to sometimes present an alternative so that forum readers can see that there are many other reasons to appreciate women besides just their physical appearance.

Yes, hon, you did. You wrote, "the tone you took just now was perfectly adequate." That's different than "the tone you took just now was polite and I appreciated it." Regardless, my point in this thread is not to earn your admiration or appreciation. That's why I called you out on your assessment that I'm "perfectly adequate." You seem to be operating under the assumption that I should only post things that please you, which is just not gonna happen. You can't demand behavior from others based on what you want. You certainly can't demand it of me.

Oy vey. Clueless much? Slut shaming is wrong, no matter who it's directed at, Kim from Vengaboys or Beth Ditto.

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The Fascinating Turnip

You just assumed that I agreed with this thread just because I called you out on your obnoxious attitude.
Furthermore, if there's a thread on this forum about it, members shall post in this thread, and not in a porn site. You know, just like you're not supposed to please me, other members aren't supposed to please you.

The mere linking of a woman's body to pornography completely baffled me there. Convervative much? Nude models are prostitutes in your little world as well?

I merely said I think you're being an utter arse to a few members, and you're not admitting you made a mistake.

If you're really so cool and if you just don't care, why are you having this argument with me? (Seems Dayna beat me to this bit)

Stop being so bloody paranoid. "Perfectly adequate" just meant that you were being civil, which is what's required in this forum, as in most. I hardly meant all women belong in the kitchen with that.

thirtiesgirl

Because I'm a size activist and I don't do it in half measures. If I see someone engaging in sizeist behavior, I'm going to call them out on it. Being happy with myself for who I am doesn't mean I have to tolerate sizeism when I see it.

Nor do I expect them to. I'm not demanding that the mods close this thread and stop people from posting any kind of pics they want in it. What I did was post an alternative to the usual in this thread and when questioned about it, I defended my actions. I haven't demanded that anyone stop posting pics, but pointed out when Zaq's pics were unnecessary, and have pointed out sizeism when it appears in the hopes that people might re-think their actions.

Whew, sounds like you need some education. The point of porn is to objectify the people being photographed - mostly women - and to provide visual stimulation to those who like to view porn. If guys here are posting pics of women that they find physically attractive, they're objectifying those women - seeing them as nothing other than body parts and faces. If that's what they want to do, I think it would be better suited to a porn forum. Again, I can't stop people from posting any kind of pics they want, for whatever reason they want to post them. The mods maintain the posting rules here. But I can present an alternative, which is what I did. And I should be able to do it just like anyone else here, without being questioned about what I've posted and why, and without having size hatred thrown in my face.

Your statement that I'm being "an utter arse to a few members" is your opinion. Why should I apologize for your opinion?

I understand your intention behind your statement that I'm "perfectly adequate," Unchained, but it's apparent you didn't think about how those words might be taken. I know you didn't intend to insult, but it is insulting because it plays into the long overused standard that women are here to please and win approval from men, to have everyone like them, etc. That's not what I'm about, as should be clear by now.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

thirtiesgirl

Hon, when it comes to slut shaming and sizeism, I'm going to speak my mind. Yes, I've made some errors in determining who said what. But this is not the first time you've engaged in slut shaming on this forum. You've refered to other women as sluts in other threads, too, and I think you're seriously misguided in making that statement. When you call a woman a slut, you're calling her sexual activities into question and judging her for them. Do we really need to maintain that double standard here? I don't think so.

As if my only reason for being here is to make friends. Do you really think all women do the things they do just to be liked by others?

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

s_k

No. s_k wrote that
This girl, Kim from Vengaboys, is slutty.

And s_k has really had enough of defending himself for things he didn't say all the time. You really should read. And when you get angry, step away from the computer, count to ten, and read again. Because this isn't working for you .

I'm sure that's why Unchained ballad understood what I meant so well.

I was actually quoting Zaqarbal's posting and replied underneath that.
I don't mind that you are making mistakes here at all, but I do mind that you rather stick your energy in being cross with forum members, than stick your energy in reading what is actually said.

That's all the energy I'll give to this issue now.
You may want to wake up and see that more people than just me are having a problem with your posting style. And altough I think everyone should try to adapt to eachother as much as possible, it's not one way traffic.
Put some effort in it, because you're really not making any friends this way.

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Paedantic Basterd

On the topic of society, believe me, it's absolutely not fat friendly in the slightest. I think it's just shy of rounding all the overweight people up and stoning them to death. I think Thirtiesgirl has a lot of great sentiments, but is just taking the smallest details out of context, and honestly, I think she came in here looking for a fight.

He was actually talking about that chick from the Vengaboys.

Now who's making assumptions? We have a lot of people here whose native language isn't English, and they're all superb at articulating themselves. I had no trouble figuring out what he was going on about. People whose first language is English slaughter dialogue as well, you know.