Sansa Stark

Oh don't give me that bull****, I'm a ****ing card carrying feminist and get off your high horse on educating anyone. You are not going to educate anyone on fat acceptance and on the pits shaving thing, I really do not give a damn what you do with your body hair, I was merely being flippant.

I don't care if she loses her autonomy or whatever bull**** you are parroting, anyone could look at her and see all that lard is not healthy! She doesn't appear to have any muscle tone or anything. It's all blubber. I'm sorry if you think that's based on "my own issues and fears of being fat". I once was overweight, so I know how it is.


It's funny though, you call me out on "making assumptions" and turn around and do the exact same thing.

thirtiesgirl

No, it wouldn't, because Courtney Love's body shape is generally considered 'socially acceptable' by the general public, regardless of what they think of her personality, parenting skills or musical talent. His point in posting comparison pictures, as he's done again above, is to showcase his belief that thinner women are 'more attractive' in comparison to Beth Ditto simply because they have 'socially acceptable' body shapes, according to the popular media and general public. He's not expressing anything new here. We all know that thinner female body shapes are the preferred social paradigm, as witnessed by the body shapes of women on every magazine cover on the newsstands, in popular television and film. Did Zaq actually assume that this is a surprise to fat people?

Hon, I've made no assumptions about you that aren't already obvious. Your sizeism is very apparent based on the things you've written here. I assume your weight loss has made you happier and for that I'm glad. But rather than work towards creating a social environment where people of all sizes and shapes can feel accepted, appreciated, understood and loved, you continue to show hatred for fat people by making assumptions about their health and not allowing them the autonomy to speak for themselves, should they choose to. Again, you profess knowledge of Beth's health without ever having seen her medical records. Your assumption that she's "not healthy" is based on your assessment of her appearance alone ("it's all blubber," "no muscle tone," "all that lard"). It's unfortunate that you bring your sizeism here, but not that surprising to me. Sizeism is the last acceptable prejudice and not one that's easily eradicated. I've been working on it for the past 10 years.

At any rate, I've said what I need to say about the subject. I'm sure you'll continue the argument since you seem determined to express and spread your fat hate. Just know that you're not saying anything new, nothing that fat people haven't heard before. And in my case, it will fall on deaf ears, not gain you any respect in my eyes, and continue to showcase your sizeist attitude.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Urban Hat€monger ?

Yes it would because in his original post all Zaqarbal did was post a picture of a woman he found unattractive, in this case Beth Ditto.

It was YOU that bought up the weight issue later on.

So yes, a picture of Courtney Love would have implied the exact same thing.

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thirtiesgirl

Urban Hate, please tell me you're not that disingenuous. If Zaq's reason for finding Beth unattractive is not about her weight, why then post a pic of her next to a slender woman? Why not post a pic of Beth and, say, Mama Cass, or the women from Gravy Train? Why continue to post 'comparison' pics of Beth next to slender women? Zaq can play the game all he wants and pretend that his reasons for finding Beth unattractive are not related to her weight, but I've been around for too long and have seen sizeism take on many guises. This is just one of them. As I've said before, I don't expect Zaq to find Beth attractive. Attraction is subjective and my point is not to make others find fat people attractive. My point is that Zaq's comparison pics are unnecessary, since his point in posting them is to underscore exactly how unattractive he finds Beth Ditto. Believe me, we fat people know how you feel about us. We know you find us unattractive, socially unacceptable, lazy, slovenly, unambitious, etc. We don't need to see those viewpoints repeated ad infinitum everywhere we go.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Urban Hat€monger ?

The fact still remains he posted a picture of a woman of a woman he found attractive and a woman he didn't.

It was YOU who bought up the fat issue, all I said was that he could have posted a picture of any woman that is disliked by people whether that woman be fat, thin, yellow, orange, purple ...whatever.

Beth Ditto is the last obnoxious female I can think of to come along in the world of music, I dislike her just in the same way I disliked Karen O before her and Courtney Love before her. Neither of those two are fat, just extremely annoying. In fact I suggest you do a Courtney Love search on the forum. The amount of abuse that woman gets here is much worse than anything Ditto gets.

And one last thing, please don't make assumptions about people posting here. 'How you feel about us', What is that supposed to mean?
My Mother, my sister and myself have battled with weight issues before.

Stop making yourself out to be a victim or a martyr all the time.While it's admirable you want to do something about this try picking your battles a little better. All I've seen you do so far is gloss over what people say to push your own agenda and personally I think that is one of the most annoying things you can do on a forum.

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Goblin Tears

Excuse me, but what difference does it make whether he posts a Courtney Love picture or not? He actually posted a Janis Joplin picture, so I'm assuming his judgements are based entirely on the physical. Zac's post was entirely based on judging Beth's PHYSICAL appearance, and had nothing to do with her talent/personality, he even clarifies this himself by linking thirtiesgirl to other threads that he deems more appropriate. People didn't consider Courtney Love ugly in the early nineties either, and Katy O is actually IN this thread, her name unblemished...if you dislike them on the simple pretext of their questionable personalities, I don't see how that has anything to do with the topic at hand.

Anyway, the problem imo is not these cruel judgements on a physical appearance. The fact that when a member picks out a person she personally judges as beautiful and posts her in this thread, and others are indecliate enough to force this poster to re-evaluate her decision because they have a more primitive sense of beauty is ridiculously irritating. So I don't blame thirtiesgirl for ''picking a fight''...because that's what everyone else in this thread is doing, albeit less maturely.

thirtiesgirl

I'm not surprised to read this from you since you engage in sizeist behavior. It's a typical sizeist argument. Again, unless you have looked at a fat person's medical records and have spoken to them about their fat history, you have no idea why they're fat. You can't assume that they "can help it." There are many reasons why a person may be fat, many of them not related to food or mobility, and often related to genetics. Your assumption that people can control their weight is, again, simply based on size and that fact that you don't like fat or fat people, rather than actual knowledge of why fat people are fat.

Hon, I really didn't. I posted in this thread, as I said above, to present an alternative to the usual raison d'etre of pics being posted here. Had Zaq not questioned me on it and Paloma not engaged in overt fat hatred, this discussion would never have ensued.

Hate, you continue to maintain your disingenuousness here. I honestly can't believe that you don't see Zaq's intentions. If he wanted to make the point that his lack of attraction to Beth Ditto is based on her personality, he could have posted pics of Beth in comparison to other fat women like Mama Cass, Adele, the Gravy Train girls, etc. He wouldn't have to limit it to music, either. There's Roseanne, Mindy Cohn, Delta Burke, Melissa McCarthy, Camryn Manheim, etc. His point in posting pics of Beth with slender women was to comment on her size and nothing more.

If you're not one of the many guys who have posted pics of women here solely based on their appearance, then you have nothing to worry about, hon. If you've walked the earth as a fat person, and "battled with weight issues" as you say, then you'll know how fat people are treated by the general public. We're seen as less than, socially unacceptable, unattractive, lazy, slovenly, unambitious, etc, etc. If you've experienced any of those things before (which I'm guessing that you have, since that's usually a large part of the reason why people strive to lose weight), I'd think you'd want to help create a social environment where people of all sizes and shapes can feel accepted, appreciated and understood.

Hon, I'm a fat person dealing with open fat hatred and fear on an internet forum. I believe I'm allowed to defend myself and stand up for what I believe in.

Size acceptance is not just my agenda. It's the agenda of many people in the world and one that I will advocate for under any circumstances. As I wrote above, had Zaq not questioned my decision to post pics of women who *I* admire in this thread because he wanted to make an issue of his assessment of Beth's unattractiveness, and had Paloma not engaged in open fat hatred, this discussion would never have occurred. I'm not going to let sizeism slide when it occurs, and it might help to have more size advocates here so we could avoid discussions like this in the future.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Paedantic Basterd

Okay, you, stop this. Now. It's agonizingly condescending and disrespectful, and it's no wonder people are treating you the way you are when you so blatantly patronize every individual you respond to in this thread. The next post of yours that starts with this word, I will completely disregard. Thank you.

The Fascinating Turnip

What you did was search for sizeism, you didn't chance upon it.

It's thread about women musicians who people think are physically attractive and you post Beth Ditto. What were you expecting?

Also, you said you found them attractive, not that you admired them.

Urban Hat€monger ?

If I had why would I have to worry about it?
The whole point of the thread is about posting women you find attractive.

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