Zaqarbal

Wait! There's been too much confusion and misunderstandings in some posts before, but I want to clarify that point. Let's distinguish between acceptable and accepted, OK? And let's distinguish between describing a common social view and expressing a moral opinion about that view, OK? They are different things. I know that some people do find fat people attractive, but that's not a popular ideal. I'm just describing a fact, whether we like it or not. I'm not making a "moral judgement", OK? And if you look at this post, you'll see that the two last points are very clear on this matter:

You see?

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thirtiesgirl

Zaq, you can argue your point all you want, but you're not going to convince me. There's no difference between "accepted" and "acceptable." The point that you seem to be making by posting 'comparison' pics of Beth Ditto and Francoise Hardy is that Beth is "socially unacceptable" by general standards. If you argue in support of the general standard that "fat people are socially unacceptable," you're supporting that point of view. You can't split hairs with me and pretend that you're not.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Urban Hat€monger ?

To be fair to Zaqarbal he could have posted a picture of Courtney Love rather than Beth Ditto and his point would have been exactly the same.

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noise

Yummy

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my flac collection

s_k

I kind of lost it. Do I still need to explain something?
I just thought she looked sweet. That's all.

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Click here to see my collection

Zaqarbal

Look, I'm tired of this discussion. And it's not the first time I argue with people like you (on many topics, from politics or religion to cinema or music), which continually plays the "strategic ambiguity" because they don't find any other way to "win a debate". And according to my "dialectic" experience, it's not worth the trouble to continue. In fact, it'd be counter-productive. So think whatever you want. As Clark Gable said to a 30's girl in the famous movie: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn".

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Apart from that: Does anyone know the former band A-Teens? I'm not a big fan of that style (the so-called Europop), but the group's singers were gorgeous! Especially if we compare them to.... say... Beth Ditto... for example. I loved Marie Serneholt!


And Vengaboys, from the Netherlands? SK, man, how fortunate you are! You were f***ing right when you said that the Dutch girls are great! What beauties you have there! I loved when Kim Sasabone sang ♫ "Boom boom boom, I want you in my room..." ♫ Yeahh! I couldn't sing the same to Beth Ditto (there isn't enough space in it for her!!).


And Princessa? Wow! Mediterranean beauty at its best! She's no longer active, but I remember I had a big crush on her when I was younger. Although, as I said, this is not one of my favourite music genres. Lately I've been thinking about how fortunate I was for having known such hot female musicians. I mean, instead of Beth Ditto (just to put an example).

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Sansa Stark

Oh don't give me that bull****, I'm a ****ing card carrying feminist and get off your high horse on educating anyone. You are not going to educate anyone on fat acceptance and on the pits shaving thing, I really do not give a damn what you do with your body hair, I was merely being flippant.

I don't care if she loses her autonomy or whatever bull**** you are parroting, anyone could look at her and see all that lard is not healthy! She doesn't appear to have any muscle tone or anything. It's all blubber. I'm sorry if you think that's based on "my own issues and fears of being fat". I once was overweight, so I know how it is.


It's funny though, you call me out on "making assumptions" and turn around and do the exact same thing.

thirtiesgirl

No, it wouldn't, because Courtney Love's body shape is generally considered 'socially acceptable' by the general public, regardless of what they think of her personality, parenting skills or musical talent. His point in posting comparison pictures, as he's done again above, is to showcase his belief that thinner women are 'more attractive' in comparison to Beth Ditto simply because they have 'socially acceptable' body shapes, according to the popular media and general public. He's not expressing anything new here. We all know that thinner female body shapes are the preferred social paradigm, as witnessed by the body shapes of women on every magazine cover on the newsstands, in popular television and film. Did Zaq actually assume that this is a surprise to fat people?

Hon, I've made no assumptions about you that aren't already obvious. Your sizeism is very apparent based on the things you've written here. I assume your weight loss has made you happier and for that I'm glad. But rather than work towards creating a social environment where people of all sizes and shapes can feel accepted, appreciated, understood and loved, you continue to show hatred for fat people by making assumptions about their health and not allowing them the autonomy to speak for themselves, should they choose to. Again, you profess knowledge of Beth's health without ever having seen her medical records. Your assumption that she's "not healthy" is based on your assessment of her appearance alone ("it's all blubber," "no muscle tone," "all that lard"). It's unfortunate that you bring your sizeism here, but not that surprising to me. Sizeism is the last acceptable prejudice and not one that's easily eradicated. I've been working on it for the past 10 years.

At any rate, I've said what I need to say about the subject. I'm sure you'll continue the argument since you seem determined to express and spread your fat hate. Just know that you're not saying anything new, nothing that fat people haven't heard before. And in my case, it will fall on deaf ears, not gain you any respect in my eyes, and continue to showcase your sizeist attitude.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Paedantic Basterd

To be completely honest, I doubt Beth Ditto could do 2 minutes on a stairmaster, or run away from a rabid dog. She might not be diabetic or asthmatic or on the verge of a coronary, but under a doctor's standards, she's not a healthy weight.

thirtiesgirl

I'm sure she's considered "clinically obsese" on the BMI scale, but most of us are well aware that the BMI has been proven to be complete bunk. Being considered clinically obese on the BMI scale says nothing about one's mobility or health, nor does it say anything about one's attractiveness. Your assumptions that she couldn't "do 2 minutes on a Stairmaster" or "run from a rabid dog" are based on her appearance alone, and no actual knowledge of her mobility. If you've ever seen the Gossip live, as I have, many times, Beth is very mobile on stage.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case