thirtiesgirl

Apologies. Yes, you've caught me out. I made an error. But the point still stands that your intent in posting a pic of Francoise Hardy along with Beth Ditto was rather disingenuous.

I wouldn't be wasting time on this board if I was a cokehead, hon. I'd be hanging out with Courtney Love at Jumbo's Clown Room, trying to be someone I'm not.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Sansa Stark

Oh for god's sake Beth Ditto is unattractive and it's not because she's ****ing fat, it's because she's ****ing obnoxious

thirtiesgirl

She's done her share of obnoxious things over the years, yes, but the point is, she doesn't care. And for many fat women who are so concerned with how they're perceived by the general public and the popular media, the fact that Beth really doesn't give a s h i t is a refreshing change.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Sansa Stark

Plenty of other people don't give a toss how the media perceive them, but you don't see me giving a wank over em

Fat men are just as unattractive. It's unattractive because it's looks unhealthy. I don't know these musicians personally so I can't exactly be attracted on their personalities alone. She just looks gross. She doesn't have a pretty face and what I can perceive of her personality is that she's an obnoxious militant feminist who needs one upside the head

Paedantic Basterd

It's not really about health though, when it comes down to it. 86 pounds isn't any healthier than 300, but it's considered far more attractive than even 150, which is healthy.

A person's personality does affect my attraction to them though, and while I respect Beth Ditto to some extent, I have to agree that she's unappealingly obnoxious.

Sansa Stark

To me it's about health. I don't think women's sticky-outy ribcages are attractive either. Or on anyone really. I like flesh on people, meaty thighs and lovely hips on women.

thirtiesgirl

Beth definitely stands by her beliefs, which is something I admire. She's one of the few fat women in popular media who I seriously doubt we'll ever see taking money from Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers to lose weight and claim she hated herself when she was fatter. I find your comment about her face interesting since so many fat women are often told "you have such a pretty face," as if that's the only thing one can find attractive about a fat woman. A fat woman can be attractive, imo, whether she has a "pretty face" or not. Personally, I think Beth's face is just fine.

Here's the thing, though: you can no more judge a person's health based on their body size than you can judge the size of a person's bank account based on the clothes on their back. When you make such an assumption about someone's health based on body size, it dehumanizes them because it takes their voice out of the equation. Rather than allowing them their own autonomy to speak about their health - or not, as they see fit - you take that autonomy away when you make an assumption simply based on body size. It's sizeist and continues to support the dominant social paradigm that health = a body shape that the popular media and general public find sexually attractive/socially acceptable.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case

Sljslj

Ashley Ellyllon (Keyboardist for Cradle Of Filth, Orbs, and Abigail Williams)



Beautiful and insanely talented.
Listen to Orbs here.

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Sansa Stark

I think you're just waiting for someone to **** on her so you can tack a negative label on them and call them sizeist. Go back to your militant feminism club and grow your armpit hair. There is no way in hell she is healthy. She is obviously obese, and no quack would tell you otherwise, just by looking at her. What, are all those rolls air? And you know, just because YOU find her attractive doesn't make the rest of us sizeist or sexist or whatever pretty box you'd like to put us in, and i think you acting as such is just ****ed up. It's my right to find her unattractive.

thirtiesgirl

You're throwing around a lot of assumptions here. You know nothing about me, yet assume because I advocate for size acceptance that I'm a "militant feminist" and don't shave my pits. I'm actually a third-wave feminist, about which it seems you could use some education, and generally prefer to shave. I certainly place no judgment on anyone who chooses not to, though.

Another assumption you engage in here is that I expect everyone to find Beth Ditto attractive. I really don't care if you find her attractive or not. Attraction is subjective and if you don't see it in someone, that's your prerogative. What I *do* find sizeist are your assumptions about Beth's health. You know nothing about her or about her medical records, yet you assume she's unhealthy simply based on her size. That is sizeism. Rather than allowing Beth to maintain her autonomy and speak for herself about her health, should she choose to, you take away that autonomy when making an assumption that's based on your own fears and issues with fat.

What I find sizeist about Zaq's post is his overt assumption that Beth is less socially acceptable than other women who more readily fit into the media sponsored standard image of "beauty." I don't expect Zaq to find her attractive, but I do hope that he'd at least expand his scope of reference enough to understand that some people do find fat people attractive and that's ok. Just because you don't find a fat person attractive or you dislike their personality is no reason to engage in sizeism or make sure everyone knows you think they're an uggo.

I would actually prefer not to think of anyone on this board as sizeist because sizeism is something I've worked long and hard to educate people about and to hopefully, slowly, eradicate. It's not something I like or expect to see in others.

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Even in my darkest recollection, there was someone singing my life back to me. ~Neko Case