Is Remixed Music Art? (bass, copyright, song, youtube)

jdm11b · 02-26-2009, 01:17 PM

No, there can be no artistic ability without some technical ability. Otherwise all art would be paint smears and red squares.

The point is there is very little technical ability in being a DJ or remixing. There is also very little artistic ability because the music has already been composed by someone else. It's like pouring M&Ms and Skittles into a bowl and saying I'm a chef.

cardboard adolescent · 02-26-2009, 01:25 PM

collapse of meta-narratives!!!

**Janszoon** · 02-26-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdm11b

No, there can be no artistic ability without some technical ability. Otherwise all art would be paint smears and red squares.

The point is there is very little technical ability in being a DJ or remixing. There is also very little artistic ability because the music has already been composed by someone else. It's like pouring M&Ms and Skittles into a bowl and saying I'm a chef.

I'm not saying people shouldn't develop their technical ability, what I'm saying is that you can't judge a person's artistic ability by their technical proficiency. And the artistic merit of a song has nothing to with how long the composer has studied music for or how long they've been playing a given instrument. All that matters is the end product.

Brad Stengel · 02-26-2009, 01:37 PM

Somehow, even in 2009, people are confusing technical accomplishment with creativity. Theres nothing 'technically difficult' about remixing, but it does require being creative.

I value creative musicians 100000000% more than I do those who are technically accomplished. Sure, some DJ's can't play Beethoven on the marimbas, but who's to say the college student is creative enough to make remixes as well as the DJ?

In the long history of music, it's the most creative pieces that have shaped our ears, the most creative that have struck new ground and pointed towards the future. If you still believe technical wizardry is more important, enjoy listening to the same mediocre Yngwie Malmsteen records for the rest of your lives, because unlike creativity, there is a limit to what one can physically accomplish playing an instrument.

jdm11b · 02-26-2009, 02:54 PM

I'll be more blunt. I don't think remixing requires a person to be artistically skilled. They are merely copying and pasting things other people have done until something sounds ok. I think any average person has the ability to do a remix if they have the desire.

If you look at famous composers who changed music as we know it, almost all were technical masters in addition to their creativity. You can't write a symphony if you don't have the technical chops to do it. You can't write a piano sonata if you can't actually play piano- if you attempt it, it will either sound like crap or not make sense to the hands- probably both.

I could open Garage Band on my Mac and pull together a pretty nice sounding song with the selection of loops. I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it took some kind of creative genius to do it. If you look at any remixing contest on the web, there will be a million entries and all of them sound pretty good.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 02-26-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdm11b

I could open Garage Band on my Mac and pull together a pretty nice sounding song with the selection of loops. I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it took some kind of creative genius to do it. If you look at any remixing contest on the web, there will be a million entries and all of them sound pretty good.

I could pick up a guitar & fashion a song out of a couple of chords , I don't have to be a creative genius to do that either. So does that make it any less legitimate?

**Janszoon** · 02-26-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdm11b

I'll be more blunt. I don't think remixing requires a person to be artistically skilled. They are merely copying and pasting things other people have done until something sounds ok. I think any average person has the ability to do a remix if they have the desire.

If you look at famous composers who changed music as we know it, almost all were technical masters in addition to their creativity. You can't write a symphony if you don't have the technical chops to do it. You can't write a piano sonata if you can't actually play piano- if you attempt it, it will either sound like crap or not make sense to the hands- probably both.

I could open Garage Band on my Mac and pull together a pretty nice sounding song with the selection of loops. I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it took some kind of creative genius to do it. If you look at any remixing contest on the web, there will be a million entries and all of them sound pretty good.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that having technical ability means you don't have artistic ability, I'm saying that it doesn't necessarily mean you have artistic ability. They are two separate things.

And I have to question the premise of your second paragraph. I would venture to say that most modern composers are actually less technically proficient than many of the people who wind up playing their stuff, because otherwise why wouldn't they just play it all themselves?

Also, who says something has to be made by a "creative genius" in order to be artistic? To use your example, if you put something together in GarageBand that's really unique and emotionally moving then you've accomplished something artistic. It doesn't matter if you are a creative genius or not. As I said before it's the final product that matters.

4ZZZ · 02-26-2009, 04:11 PM

After nearly 50 odd years of listening to music I am damned if I care about this style of argument. I have heard it all before in its various guises. "They can't play their instruments." "They are only in it for the money" Music is an aesthetic value in the end. Just enjoy it or don't listen to it.

jackhammer · 02-26-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdm11b

I'll be more blunt. I don't think remixing requires a person to be artistically skilled. They are merely copying and pasting things other people have done until something sounds ok. I think any average person has the ability to do a remix if they have the desire.

There are a lot of remixers out there who may not be classed as artistically skilled but that is taring everyone with the same brush. Once again it comes down to actually getting out there and searching for music that is relevant. take these two tracks. The original (which I don't much care for TBH) and a remix version by my favourite remixers Kruder & Dorfmeister. I would certainly say that they are artistically skilled.

Anteater · 02-26-2009, 05:08 PM

The funny thing about technical virtuosity is that many supposed virtuosos are rarely consistantly creative anyway, if at all. (John Petrucci, Joe Satriani and Steve Vai being texbook examples; they're all fairly excellent guitar players, but how much of what they do is memorable beyond an album or so?)

02-26-2009, 01:37 PM	#44 (permalink)
Brad Stengel This Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 815	Somehow, even in 2009, people are confusing technical accomplishment with creativity. Theres nothing 'technically difficult' about remixing, but it does require being creative. I value creative musicians 100000000% more than I do those who are technically accomplished. Sure, some DJ's can't play Beethoven on the marimbas, but who's to say the college student is creative enough to make remixes as well as the DJ? In the long history of music, it's the most creative pieces that have shaped our ears, the most creative that have struck new ground and pointed towards the future. If you still believe technical wizardry is more important, enjoy listening to the same mediocre Yngwie Malmsteen records for the rest of your lives, because unlike creativity, there is a limit to what one can physically accomplish playing an instrument. __________________ These is the musics I own: http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/BradStengel/oo

02-26-2009, 01:17 PM	#41 (permalink)
jdm11b Groupie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 23	No, there can be no artistic ability without some technical ability. Otherwise all art would be paint smears and red squares. The point is there is very little technical ability in being a DJ or remixing. There is also very little artistic ability because the music has already been composed by someone else. It's like pouring M&Ms and Skittles into a bowl and saying I'm a chef.

02-26-2009, 01:25 PM	#42 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	collapse of meta-narratives!!!

02-26-2009, 02:54 PM	#45 (permalink)
jdm11b Groupie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 23	I'll be more blunt. I don't think remixing requires a person to be artistically skilled. They are merely copying and pasting things other people have done until something sounds ok. I think any average person has the ability to do a remix if they have the desire. If you look at famous composers who changed music as we know it, almost all were technical masters in addition to their creativity. You can't write a symphony if you don't have the technical chops to do it. You can't write a piano sonata if you can't actually play piano- if you attempt it, it will either sound like crap or not make sense to the hands- probably both. I could open Garage Band on my Mac and pull together a pretty nice sounding song with the selection of loops. I'm not going to kid myself into thinking it took some kind of creative genius to do it. If you look at any remixing contest on the web, there will be a million entries and all of them sound pretty good.

02-26-2009, 04:11 PM	#48 (permalink)
4ZZZ Forever young Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 608	After nearly 50 odd years of listening to music I am damned if I care about this style of argument. I have heard it all before in its various guises. "They can't play their instruments." "They are only in it for the money" Music is an aesthetic value in the end. Just enjoy it or don't listen to it.