Is Remixed Music Art? (lyrics, techno, electronic, dance, hip-hop)

cardboard adolescent · 02-23-2009, 11:58 PM

should mention that I lifted that from derrida, but it seemed to relate quite well

Anteater · 02-24-2009, 12:02 AM

Maybe so dude, but good god, you turn every damn thread into Thus Spoke Zarathustra!!

Molecules · 02-24-2009, 12:03 AM

it's your fault for encouraging him

anteater if you have listened to 'It Takes A Nation Of Millions to Hold Us Back' and still don't consider it art I feel sorry for you. Bob Dylan appropriated other, better folksters' protest spirit/style/chords/clothes and is still considered art. Almost everything is a reappropriation of existing forms

Surell · 02-24-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molecules

Bob Dylan appropriated other, better folksters' protest spirit/style/chords/clothes and is still considered art. Almost everything is a reappropriation of existing forms

True that.

Anteater · 02-24-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molecules

it's your fault for encouraging him

anteater if you have listened to 'It Takes A Nation Of Millions to Hold Us Back' and still don't consider it art I feel sorry for you. Bob Dylan appropriated other, better folksters' protest spirit/style/chords/clothes and is still considered art. Almost everything is a reappropriation of existing forms

I think people are under the impression that I completely despise sampling, which is wrong. 'It Takes A Nation..." was great, and Entroducing... by DJ Shadow is a masterpiece, but I ....fear, I suppose, that the seeming greater and greater acceptance of sampling (especially as less instances of the original artists actually get credited emerge) in more and more genres of music, especially as we head into this century, is going to eventually drive down people's desire to actually pick up their instruments and PLAY something they try to write themselves.

And also, even if Dylan carried on the sentiments, style and the 4/4 chord of others, were his lyrics and compositions not his own? Also, he played his own damn guitar: he didn't sit up there on stage and just talk every once in awhile while somebody's recorded playing blared out of nearby speakers.

**Janszoon** · 02-24-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Ever heard of Jasper Johns? How about Andy Warhol?

There wasn't a cent of originality about those men & they're still some of the most respected artists out there.

I'm sorry but bullshit. I'm not a huge fan of Jasper Johns but both he and Warhol were very original.

**Janszoon** · 02-24-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

And also, even if Dylan carried on the sentiments, style and the 4/4 chord of others, were his lyrics and compositions not his own? Also, he played his own damn guitar: he didn't sit up there on stage and just talk every once in awhile while somebody's recorded playing blared out of nearby speakers.

So you don't respect people who just sing while other people instruments like, say, Ella Fitzgerald?

cardboard adolescent · 02-24-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

Maybe so dude, but good god, you turn every damn thread into Thus Spoke Zarathustra!!

it's really the fault of whoever started the thread for connecting post-modernism and sampling. derrida's metaphor of 'folding back the cloth of the abyss' works quite well in the context of musical aesthetic development--we go through modernism, which is an attempt to reach the 'ground,' or 'foundation' of aesthetics, and ends up staring into the abyss (it either tends towards complete discord and alienation of man from his creation or complete simplicity in which man is no longer required to maintain his creation) to avoid this fate, post-modernism re-appropriates the very dissolution of aesthetic values, which is best characterized by sampling, since it synthesizes conflicting styles haphazardly, and yet develops its own 'rules of re-appropriation,' which extend both to the legal field as well as to slowly emerging artistic guidelines, which often manifest as genres. for instance, turntablism is often seen as being more 'legitimate' than laptop-generated remixes.... generally re-introducing a performance aspect to the music reinforces its legitimacy as an artform, despite the fact that all post-modern art reproduces the dissolution of artistic legitimacy. so there's a powerful irony there that can keep us interested for now.

Molecules · 02-24-2009, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anteater

I think people are under the impression that I completely despise sampling, which is wrong. 'It Takes A Nation..." was great, and Entroducing... by DJ Shadow is a masterpiece, but I ....fear, I suppose, that the seeming greater and greater acceptance of sampling (especially as less instances of the original artists actually get credited emerge) in more and more genres of music, especially as we head into this century, is going to eventually drive down people's desire to actually pick up their instruments and PLAY something they try to write themselves.

And also, even if Dylan carried on the sentiments, style and the 4/4 chord of others, were his lyrics and compositions not his own? Also, he played his own damn guitar: he didn't sit up there on stage and just talk every once in awhile while somebody's recorded playing blared out of nearby speakers.

yeah but this isn't the mid 80's, sampling hasn't just arrived on the scene to infiltrate our happy suburbs. Your poor understanding of how samples were used in the boom (before the early 90's clearance laws were passed) shows; for one PE was more like dense sound collage, and tracks that are built around a sampled drum break/ jazz figure/ whatever still need hooks and choruses written for them if that's the format the artist chooses.

I'm a bit flabbergasted at having to argue hip-hop's corner in this day and age, but lyrically and musically it's every bit as relevant as Bob f*cking Dylan, more so even, and the music arose from minority cultures unable to afford expensive instruments and amplifiers. You look at the Kinks, playing the working class lads, they were all in fact thoroughly middle grammar kids, do you think anybody else could afford an electric guitar in the 60's? You work with what you've got
And if rabble-rousing negros are not your bag, you might want to check out My Life In the Bush of Ghosts for one, and tell me exactly how that is unoriginal and irrelevant.

Besides this thread is about remixes, not hip-hop, and outside of MOR sponsored turds like Kanye West you will not find a lot of sampling anymore, it's far too costly and time consuming when you have digital studios

Molecules · 02-24-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

it's really the fault of whoever started the thread for connecting post-modernism and sampling. derrida's metaphor of 'folding back the cloth of the abyss' works quite well in the context of musical aesthetic development--we go through modernism, which is an attempt to reach the 'ground,' or 'foundation' of aesthetics, and ends up staring into the abyss (it either tends towards complete discord and alienation of man from his creation or complete simplicity in which man is no longer required to maintain his creation) to avoid this fate, post-modernism re-appropriates the very dissolution of aesthetic values, which is best characterized by sampling, since it synthesizes conflicting styles haphazardly, and yet develops its own 'rules of re-appropriation,' which extend both to the legal field as well as to slowly emerging artistic guidelines, which often manifest as genres. for instance, turntablism is often seen as being more 'legitimate' than laptop-generated remixes.... generally re-introducing a performance aspect to the music reinforces its legitimacy as an artform, despite the fact that all post-modern art reproduces the dissolution of artistic legitimacy. so there's a powerful irony there that can keep us interested for now.

.

02-24-2009, 12:03 AM	#23 (permalink)
Molecules daddy don't Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: the Wastes Posts: 2,577	it's your fault for encouraging him anteater if you have listened to 'It Takes A Nation Of Millions to Hold Us Back' and still don't consider it art I feel sorry for you. Bob Dylan appropriated other, better folksters' protest spirit/style/chords/clothes and is still considered art. Almost everything is a reappropriation of existing forms __________________ [SIZE="1"]Eff em tumble her

02-23-2009, 11:58 PM	#21 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	should mention that I lifted that from derrida, but it seemed to relate quite well