Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

Partially correct, and that's why so much right wing stuff is in metal fandom, but that's a dangerous over-simplification. There's a primitivism to metal fandom that's about violence and action that's exactly what hardcore punk and the non-arty side of punk is about as well. It's about hunting deer and fighting your sexual rivals and that's what moshing is. It's not something that can be dismissed and ignored simply by saying that it's not smart or praise-worthy. It's primal and there and needs to be dealt with.

Originally Posted by elphenor

I'm taking the piss with the incel comment

but I think at the point where hardcore punk becomes about what you're describing it actually completely misses the mark and becomes dull

it's a real like "Fight Club" mentality, boys need an outlet to be boys or whatever bleh go play sports then

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

The great pre-metal hardcore punk mosh pits were about a group of people releasing tons of energy in a way that was unifying. It wasn’t about being macho. It was about being a part of a collective force that looked scary but injuries were rare. It was primitive but it wasn’t about survival kill or be killed or being alpha or any of that.

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by elphenor

wut

neither of them are technically good singers

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't even believe aggression is the natural state of men

seems to be the accepted way socially for men to handle being lonely, isolated, unloved etc

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by elphenor

it might not even be relevant to anything at this point

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by Doug McClasky

Really? That sounds very romanticized and bull****. Everything I've heard about early hardcore moshpits is that they were the same meathead warrior bonding rituals as they are now just less safe.

Originally Posted by elphenor

it might not even be relevant to anything at this point

but I simply disagree, people act aggressively when they can not meet their basic needs (food, shelter, love)

other genres of music seem to be more self-aware about this than metal but whatever

"The boy with the thorn in his side
behind the hatred there lies a murderous desire
to be loved"

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.