jackhammer

It can inform, impress, disgust, intrigue and outrage me. It can compliment my mood or darken it exactly the same as a film can.

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4ZZZ

Thats what entertains me.

mr dave

why does it matter?

really though, i don't get it. it's a never ending debate by fans who (generally) have little to no actual personal knowledge about the musicians in question; basing their views on what they've gathered from 3rd party sources or public performances (whether it's a concert or an interview). yet the issue persists, the debate rages on, year after year first in the back corners of bars and now from forum to forum.

i'm far FAR more curious to know why music fans think this is a contentious issue.

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i am the universe

Molecules

it's a test surely? If you say 'entertainer' you're shallow and common, if you say 'artist' you're open minded and curious about the possibilities of self-expression

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[SIZE="1"]Eff em
tumble her

Automatic Slim

That's exactly it. I don't really think it matters. But, as you said, it seems to matter to many people.

The reason I presented the question in this way (entertainers vs artists) is because I wanted to get at the issue of people slamming bands because they 'sell out'. (To answer another post, the reason I presented it in the rock and metal forum is because it appears more common in the rock and metal communities.) I see a logical inconsistency in that argument.

The argument: 'A band sells out when they become mainstream.' , appears to be based on the premise that the band should not care what listeners think. What would be the reason for that idea? Is the goal to have as few people as possible appreciate their work? Surely not.

I would think that the idea (erroneous, I believe) is that the pursuit of 'art' is the important thing, and the artist should not sully himself with such mundane considerations as fame and fortune.

I was hoping that people would say 'both', though I was curious to see if anyone would actually support the idea the audience does not matter.

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"I say I can't but I really mean I won't."

Automatic Slim

Actually, I come down more on the side of musicians who consider themselves primarily 'entertainers'. There is little honor in being a 'starving artist'.

I'm also coming at this issue from the standpoint of a graphic artist (who finally got a real job) who has debated similar topics with artists who think that 'art' is all-important, and think 'the public be damned'.

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"I say I can't but I really mean I won't."

Molecules

i'll bang on about artistic integrity all night but f*ck me if i'd ever try and make a living off of it. At the end of the day be it art or entertainment it still has to go through the same system, 'it' is a product in demand and supply needs to be met. And the artists you talk to sound like c*nts, art should be for everybody, and if 'everybody' is too dense (through years of morning radio and tv propaganda) to interpret somebody else's art then that's a few less jumped-up armchair critics in the world.

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[SIZE="1"]Eff em
tumble her

Alfred

Yes, but in doing so, it will most likely entertain you.

I guess what I'm getting at is all musicians are entertainers, but some, such as emo or post-rock bands focus more on quality music and less on "what's in it for them".

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Automatic Slim

I completely agree with that statement.

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"I say I can't but I really mean I won't."

scottsy

I think it all comes down to what you are looking for in your music - hey, if you're out for a catchy little thrill ride of happiness and bliss, then it is completely fine to play your happy pop albums and be absolutely enraptured by them, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that...


But if what entertains you is song structure, challenge, a bit of complexity, be it lyrical or musical, then that's your poison as far as music is concerned, and that's great.


So I guess my answer to the main question of this board would be that yeah, both being an entertainer and an artist is equally relevant... it just depends on what form of entertainment you choose as to what art you consume...

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"If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately" - Shaun Micallef.