Is the album format sacred? (rap, rock, great songs, cds)

Piss Me Off · 01-09-2009, 06:13 PM

If you're a truly brilliant artist then you should have brilliant albums, one's that i can listen to fully in one go and appreciate not only for their music but other factors such as a message or concept or the artwork, etc. Even some of my favourite albums have tracks i don't like but it doesn't matter because it takes nothing away.

As far as i can see the album format isn't sacred so much as it is necessary. If you take them out of the equation what do you have? Bands continously releasing singles or releasing single songs off of their website? It's impractical and a certain specialness is taken away.

I think this only really applies to 'proper' music fans though. I'm sure loads of people are happy with Limewire and an Ipod.

WaspStar · 01-10-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piss Me Off

As far as i can see the album format isn't sacred so much as it is necessary. If you take them out of the equation what do you have? Bands continously releasing singles or releasing single songs off of their website? It's impractical and a certain specialness is taken away.

How is it impractical and lacking a "certain specialness"? Some great artists (especially in the soul/R&B fields) have never made great albums. Chuck Berry, Johnny Ace, etc. Even bands like the Who are best represented by their singles. One could make a case that "old school punk" (i.e., 1975-1979 or thereabouts) owes its reputation to singles, not albums.

After all, the "album" format is a fairly recent innovation. Traditionally, songs had to stand on their own. Now one can chalk up a mediocre song to being part of the bigger picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitonica

But, when you do listen to an album that really comes together, and the different songs combine to create an atmosphere that resonates throughout the entire album, then it is incredibly satisfying.

Oh, definitely! But, for me at least, I only get that orgasmic (sorry!) satisfaction when the songs themselves stand up. Listening to Skylarking all the way through, I feel somewhat cheated at the end. If I skip Mermaid Smiled, well, the final experience is totally different, in a good way.

If I find myself losing interest in an album, sometimes I'll even skip one of my favorites if I'm not in the mood for it. No sense in boring myself and getting irritated with an album just for the sake of continuity.

RoemerMW · 01-10-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaspStar

How is it impractical and lacking a "certain specialness"? Some great artists (especially in the soul/R&B fields) have never made great albums. Chuck Berry, Johnny Ace, etc. Even bands like the Who are best represented by their singles

I hate to be nitpicky, but I personally think that Chuck Berry is best represented by some of his albums, particularly Chuck Berry Is on Top and St. Louis to Liverpool.

OOS · 01-10-2009, 12:26 PM

I think that the best albums are ones that flow perfectly and have no bad tracks. The Blue Album and Pinkerton by Weezer are perfect examples of this, as is Origin of Symmetry by Muse.

Still, I think I would take a collection of great songs with no flow over a collection of mediocre-great songs with great flow.

WaspStar · 01-11-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoemerMW

I hate to be nitpicky, but I personally think that Chuck Berry is best represented by some of his albums, particularly Chuck Berry Is on Top and St. Louis to Liverpool.

I do like SLTL, but the singles are by far the best tracks (well, I'll give you Liverpool Drive and Our Little Rendezvous). Little Marie and Go Bobby Soxer are pretty generic, and Christmas songs are universally crummy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piss Me Off

It's impractical because as far as i can see modern music works around the album format. It dictates how they tour, how they afford studio time and musically, for some, how they develop as artists (that could be argued against though). I know singles were a bigger format years ago and still with most pop artists but overall for most artists the album is where it's at.

Regarding albums being special, think of all the thousands of albums that are celebrated against the number of best-of's that are celebrated.

But you're talking in a purely business sense; I'm talking from an aesthetic point of view. One could argue that the album format actually encourages filler, because bands with a handful of good tracks will write a bunch of clunkers to fill out the album (this is even worse now, with many CD's clocking in at lengths unheard of in the vinyl era).

Comps aren't celebrated among critics and most fans simply because they have an ugly reputation as "non albums." While most comps are ripoffs, some, particularly those that have a wealth of non-album tracks, are just as valid as the "proper" albums. There are plenty of Smiths fans who will swear that Hatful Of Hollow is better than most of their albums, just as I'll defend Turns Into Stone over either official Stone Roses album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

it's something that's completely lost on people who've never listened to anything besides cds or mp3s, just the physical act of having to flip over the record to get hear the other side becomes part of the listening experience. it completely changes the flow of the album for the listener.

I'm a child of the cassette/CD medium, but when I'm listening to vinyl-era albums, I like to break down the album into proper sides, at least mentally. It really helped me to appreciate a lot of those albums, especially double ones like Blonde On Blonde and Exile On Main Street.

Piss Me Off · 01-12-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaspStar

But you're talking in a purely business sense; I'm talking from an aesthetic point of view. One could argue that the album format actually encourages filler, because bands with a handful of good tracks will write a bunch of clunkers to fill out the album (this is even worse now, with many CD's clocking in at lengths unheard of in the vinyl era).

Comps aren't celebrated among critics and most fans simply because they have an ugly reputation as "non albums." While most comps are ripoffs, some, particularly those that have a wealth of non-album tracks, are just as valid as the "proper" albums. There are plenty of Smiths fans who will swear that Hatful Of Hollow is better than most of their albums, just as I'll defend Turns Into Stone over either official Stone Roses album.

Same with singles though, loads of artists will release a single just for the sake of it. Sometimes there's going to be crap music out there whatever form it's in.

I haven't got too much of a problem with Hatful of Hollow style compilations (as long as they're the same sort of quality of course, not all bands have those quality b-sides and such) and hell there's a few bands which are best known for their best of's (Buzz****s come to mind) but there's still a reason why most of hardrive is taken up by albums, they just rock that much more.

WaspStar · 01-12-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piss Me Off

Same with singles though, loads of artists will release a single just for the sake of it. Sometimes there's going to be crap music out there whatever form it's in.

I haven't got too much of a problem with Hatful of Hollow style compilations (as long as they're the same sort of quality of course, not all bands have those quality b-sides and such) and hell there's a few bands which are best known for their best of's (Buzz****s come to mind) but there's still a reason why most of hardrive is taken up by albums, they just rock that much more.

True, true, but I think the ratio of classics to filler is higher for singles than albums. That's just my opinion though.

Couldn't the reason most of us have more albums than comps be the simple fact that there are more albums than comps out there? And, of course, many (most?) of an artist's best tracks were never released as singles. That doesn't mean that one has to listen to those tracks in a predetermined order.

Piss Me Off · 01-12-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaspStar

Couldn't the reason most of us have more albums than comps be the simple fact that there are more albums than comps out there? And, of course, many (most?) of an artist's best tracks were never released as singles. That doesn't mean that one has to listen to those tracks in a predetermined order.

Good point actually (that said The Smiths have more frickin' best of's than albums). That said, i'm set in my album ways.

Order-wise it all depends, a prog album may suffer more from being out on shuffle than perhaps a punk album would.

Piss Me Off · 01-10-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaspStar

How is it impractical and lacking a "certain specialness"? Some great artists (especially in the soul/R&B fields) have never made great albums. Chuck Berry, Johnny Ace, etc. Even bands like the Who are best represented by their singles. One could make a case that "old school punk" (i.e., 1975-1979 or thereabouts) owes its reputation to singles, not albums.

After all, the "album" format is a fairly recent innovation. Traditionally, songs had to stand on their own. Now one can chalk up a mediocre song to being part of the bigger picture.

It's impractical because as far as i can see modern music works around the album format. It dictates how they tour, how they afford studio time and musically, for some, how they develop as artists (that could be argued against though). I know singles were a bigger format years ago and still with most pop artists but overall for most artists the album is where it's at.

Regarding albums being special, think of all the thousands of albums that are celebrated against the number of best-of's that are celebrated.

**Janszoon** · 01-10-2009, 01:23 PM

I can go either way. I appreciate some bands for their individual songs and some bands for their albums. One thing I think the album bands really have going for them for me though is that I love being able to immerse myself in for an extended length of time like you can with a unified-sounding album. Sometimes a single song just isn't a long enough experience for me.

01-09-2009, 06:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Piss Me Off Moodswings n' Roundabouts Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: At the corner of Dude and Catastrophe Posts: 4,470	If you're a truly brilliant artist then you should have brilliant albums, one's that i can listen to fully in one go and appreciate not only for their music but other factors such as a message or concept or the artwork, etc. Even some of my favourite albums have tracks i don't like but it doesn't matter because it takes nothing away. As far as i can see the album format isn't sacred so much as it is necessary. If you take them out of the equation what do you have? Bands continously releasing singles or releasing single songs off of their website? It's impractical and a certain specialness is taken away. I think this only really applies to 'proper' music fans though. I'm sure loads of people are happy with Limewire and an Ipod. __________________ Last FM Rate Yr Music Muxtape

01-10-2009, 01:23 PM	#10 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	I can go either way. I appreciate some bands for their individual songs and some bands for their albums. One thing I think the album bands really have going for them for me though is that I love being able to immerse myself in for an extended length of time like you can with a unified-sounding album. Sometimes a single song just isn't a long enough experience for me. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

01-10-2009, 12:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
OOS Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 124	I think that the best albums are ones that flow perfectly and have no bad tracks. The Blue Album and Pinkerton by Weezer are perfect examples of this, as is Origin of Symmetry by Muse. Still, I think I would take a collection of great songs with no flow over a collection of mediocre-great songs with great flow.