I didn't know where to put this, but I need music help.
 

As you can tell by my post count and join date, I'm a newbie. That being said, I came here because I was searching for a forum that I could learn about new music similar to what i already listen to. You can read my intro thread to see what sort of music I like, if you so choose to.

I have no idea how to classify music, I was under the impression that Sum 41 was punk rock for the longest time, as was Blink 182, Simple Plan and the like. But hardcore Punk activists want to bash these bands, that i like very much mind you, and say that no they aren't punk but bubblegum pop bullshyte. Whilst, I don't agree with this approach, I've since then stopped calling them "punk" but just plain "rock".

So my plea to you all on this forum, who are so knowledgeable about music, and yes i'm serious, most of you are fairly intelligent. Most. Anyway, my plea is that you help me about getting into new music and with this whole classification of genres.

Some of these members' favorite bands are some that I've never heard of in my life, and I've searched for, and can't seem to find their music anywhere.

Anyway, I would like to ask that you don't flame me for being a newbie and not knowing a whole lot about music and just help me out, but somehow, knowing the nature of forums, this request will go unheeded.

Thank you to those that do help. I appreciate it.

You should definitely check out 7 Seconds. Their sound was a pretty big influence on the pop punk sound that you're describing. Also, give a listen to the first Circle Jerks album Group Sex.

Alright will do. Can I find them on youtube or myspace?

And is that what this forum calls Sum 41, Simple Plan and Blink 182, Pop Punk?

The reason why bands such as Blink 182 are accused of being Pop-Punk is because their music is very polished and the complete antithises to the Punk ethos. Don't be scared or apprehensive about asking for advice on here. We all have to start somewhere.

Sure. If you're interested, let me know and I can probably hook you up with some albums.

Here's 7 Seconds covering "99 Red Balloons" back in 1984:




And here's the Circle Jerks song "Operation" from 1980:

I don't even see the pop punk label as anything inherently negative. It just means it has more of a pop sensibility to it than other punk does. There have always been punk bands like that, like X for example. Or for that matter The Ramones.

Exactly. Ask away Tobias. :)

What type of sound are you looking for?

If we can ask one or two questions from you:
How old are you? and what do your parents listen to?

If you like anything your parents listen to it would be an awesome way to find out what type of sound you like.

And of course we can all send some "further information" by Private Messages ;)

make good use of this thread: http://www.musicbanter.com/general-m...st-wanted.html and just circle around the forums and people will make threads about their favourite bands will be more than happy to send you whatever you need.

If you ever want to expand into prog check out me or boo boo we know our stuff when it comes to certain parts, but I'm far more into the obscure nowadays to give advice on the big bands. (haha I've forgotten which Yes albums are my favourite)

one suggestion for you -

become a member of lastfm.
you can type in some of your favourite bands and they will stream you a radio with new artists that you would be interested in.

Check it out:

Last.fm – The Social Music Revolution

I had the samemindset coming here, so I can definatley help you out. I would check out:
CKY
Thrice
Against Me!
The Distillers
Lagwagon
Screechin Weasel
ThousaNd Foot Krutch
SR-71

I made a list similar to this in another thread, but this one is a lot more mainstream, so you've probably heard of most of these already.

What makes it pop sounding though? Is it just cause the sound isn't grainy or the fact that they are part of a major record label

Well, I'm 21. My parents listen to a LOT of country. They also listen to some 90s stuff like Hootie, Dave Matthews, Eve6. My dad also listens to quite a bit of oldies rock, like Dokken, KISS, Poison.

And I'm still confused as to what "prog" is...

yeah I signed up for lastfm when I had my iPhone, but I got rid of that and I haven't been on that site yet. I'll check it out though

Yeah I've heard of a few, though some that I've heard I haven't actually heard their music yet.

I've listened to Thousand Foot Krutch and SR-71 and really liked them. And I always thought that Thrice was way too hard for me, granted I've never listened to them, but just from the other people that i know listen to them and other music they like.

It's just the way the music is written and the way it's played. The songs are more about hooks than most punk music. And the playing (and singing) is tight and very controlled, not loose and wild.

Oh my god, Poison is considered oldies now? Thanks for making me feel old. :p:

it just seems that, and I don't mean to offend anyone here, those who are categorized as punk are less skilled by this definition, either on purpose or not. Like they don't care if they sound good, or whatever...

and lol sorry :o:

There are many factors. Alot has to do with the attitude of the musicians, the generally brighter sound and the more positive lyrics. Check out these videos for three classifications of punk through the years:

Sex Pistols: Bodies

Punk started as rebelious music and as a reaction to the increasing amount of prog-rock in those days.

Altough Sex Pistols songs can be "brighter" than this one, their lyrics and attitude were very controversal in those days. They raised alot of hell.





Bad Brains: Banned in DC (watch all the way through)

Faster and more intense punk rock devoloped in the 1980's. It was still rebelious, but less intent on shaking the foundations of soceity and more focused on the music itself.





Green Day: American Idiot

Notice the fact that this is not only a music video (something most punk astists detest nowadays) but also the generally more polished sound. The lyrics could still be considered "punk".



Over the years, punk rock has become commercialised and slicked up. Performers like Avril Lavine (forgive my spelling) have been classified by the mass media as "punk".

With this rise came alot of (genuine) artists who got into the scene of slicker punk and thus: Pop Punk.

Nothing wrong with it at all.

These people have legit talent like everyone else.

Paramore: crushcrushcrush

I think it's mostly because it was marketed. Overkill with radio play, and music videos. Where as non pop-punk was less mainstream, and more an epic band that didn't need music videos and money to keep them happy.

There's no need to take offense to the classification of "pop-punk". I mean, it really only means popular punk.

Most hardcore punk lovers don't like pop-punk because it's not as aggressive, or genuine.

Well, one of the core ideas of punk is that anyone can do it. So sure a lot of punk bands aren't filled with the world's most technically proficient musicians. And rawness is also a vital part of punk but don't let that fool you into thinking these people are not skilled musicians. A lot of 7 Seconds basslines are pretty sick for example. And Bad Brains, one of the bands Sonace linked to above, are proficient jazz and reggae musicians in addition to playing punk rock.

You are confusing "clean" with "good". Music doesn't have to sound clean to sound good.

I really wouldn't say that. Pop Punk artists rely on studio trickery alot of times.

Well, why wouldn't Sum 41, be classified as punk, their sound isn't always bright and colorful lol, or even Simple Plan for that matter.

I know for a fact that Deryck Whibley and the rest of Sum 41 was almost deported for their last album for being so controverseal. One of their music videos was even banned from either MTV or VH1

I know I sound like a fanboy, but I'm just trying to figure this out.

I did not know that, I thought Pop meant poppy as in like Britney Spears and NSYNC stuff...happy endings and heartache in every song...

right, well pop is really just popular shortened. like top 40 radio hits.

Yeah man. Pop is nothing to be ashamed about, these top 40 stations and Britney Spears and boy bands etc. are just one small part of the world of pop music.

Check out the beatles for some great pop.

Prog is basically progressive rock, arguably the most well known prog rock band is Pink Floyd you can find a wealth of stuff on youtube. That type of progressive rock is identified by often long guitar solos and symphonic melodies. Other bands to check into would be early Genesis, Jethro Tull and Yes.

If you like guitars you'll love the rock stylings of Leaf Hound, read my review in my review corner and if you're piqued ask me for a PM.

Or the Clash for that matter.

Definitely check out the Clash, all brilliant stuff, you can't go wrong.

As for Sum 41... I can't really say because I don't listen to their music. But if you like it then it doesn't really matter if they're pop-punk or punk or not.

Here's a quote from Wikipedia you might find useful:

"Most [Sum 41] fans and critics agree that Half Hour of Power and All Killer No Filler were purely pop punk, but Does This Look Infected? started moving toward heavier styles, such as alternative rock and alternative metal,[45] with Chuck being mostly alternative metal. "

In some senses, personally I've always liked to think of it as a genre as well.

I think there's little more to it than that. There are pop-punk bands out there who are not well known. It's not about the fact that the band is popular, it's about the fact that they do have a certain sound. It's a sound based on the mainstays of pop music: hooks, catchy choruses, tight instrumentation, etc.

I mean, listen to how poppy this Blink 182 songs is:

I would agree that pop is a musical genre, yes.

But pop means POPULAR. That is the root of the word.

Yes?

That is the only point I'm trying to get across.

I like the beatles, and honest to god, some of those boy bands, SOME songs, not all. lol they are my guilty pleasure, but recently I found some "punk" versions of those songs I liked so now I don't feel guilty about it :p:

Yes. But as a genre tag it means "in the style that is popular" not "this band is popular".

Wikipedia has a good description of pop music, "Pop music as a genre features a noticeable rhythmic element, melodies and hooks, a mainstream style and conventional structure."

I like that.

IMO the term has changed over the years. When I was a youngster (in the very dawn of time) the connotations of Pop were of the popular and mainstream but there was a perceptive change in the 70's and the Punk / New Wave paved the way somewhat. Certain "punk" bands, say XTC for example began to put out what where described as Pop songs, catchy hooks and melodies etc etc.
This change may have happened earlier but I have no earlier memory of it.

In the end I have no issue with genre classification as I think that that at least attempts to help the individual understand as to what they are listening to.

Do you think that's because rock had yet to splinter into very many subgenres at that point? I mean, there were a couple different types of rock music earlier on but they were all centered around more of a pop aesthetic. It was splintering a bit in the 60s but I think the 70s were when it really broke up into tons of subgenres, many of which didn't fit into the pop mold.

If you look back further in time you can see a similar progression with jazz. Back in the 20s and 30s you had some different styles of jazz but they were all mostly about being dance music. It wasn't until you got to the late 40s or the 50s that you had large numbers of jazz musicians eschewing the pop aesthetic and creating new subgenres like bebop.

IMO an absolute yes. The interesting thing was that I caught Queens Of The Stone Age live this year. Other than the fact that they played far too loud, but then I may be past my used by date haa haa, I was struck by the fact that they were a very good rock band. When I checked their history out later, I was informed by a few sources that they were Stoner Metal. I have to admit that I am not prone to listen to as much hard rock nowadays so this was a new term but the first thing I thought of was a Black Sabbath style band. Catchy but heavy riffs etc etc. I have no issue with that. At least I have a referral point if I go and see another band of this style.

Good point. I think that they were the first to make sub genres, as you say bebop and then cool, jump, big band, swing etc etc. You knew what you were getting.

How can something be POPular if it didn't really get mainstream attention? I'm talking about Half-Hour of Power.

Would Tool be considered Prog?

I like guitars, I'm actually really getting into a full symphony with guitars and drums, and also, rap songs being remixed with guitars and drums, like Travis Barkers remixes.

Regardless of it being "poppy", it's still good, and has a LOT of meaning behind it.

Sum 41 most definitely got mainstream attention.

not their first album. And Does This Look Infected couldn't get that much mainstream attention 'cause of the parental advisory sticker on it. But the other albums, yes. Very much so.

Maybe it's just cuz I'm Canadian, and Sum 41 kinda exploded here with their first album....

I don't care what anyone says, All Killer No Filler is a good album. It's great skate-punk whether you like it or not.

It did alright, and it's not like anyone actually pays attention to those stickers anyway.

I wouldn't say Half Hour Of Power got much attention until people started listening to All Killer, and figured out they had another album.

They got a lot of attention in Ontario, for sure. Being that they were from Ajax, a small town outside of Toronto, they did a lot of shows, got a lot of radio play, and their videos could be seen on MuchMusic frequently.

Canadian artists take a lot more time to break through into the States, whereas American artists are just everywhere, you know?

They were always bit in Canada is what I'm saying.