maybe

Agreed.

Yeah, except for those crazy Mothers Against [insert honestly good entertainment here]

Very true

Be that as it may, I'm seeing a rise in Canadian stars in the States now. So I wouldn't be surprised to see them come out quicker.

To me skate punk is just a genre pushed on younger teens who think they're being rebellious or edgy. Not stuff that's legitimately good music IMO.

My saying that it's poppy is not meant as a putdown, just an observation. I have also mentioned in this thread that several classic punk bands like The Clash, The Ramones, and X were also fairly poppy.

Am I missing something? I thought the point of this thread was that you wanted some suggestions of punk bands to check out, but you seem more interested in arguing about the term "pop".

The whole poppy/non poppy thing is a total red herring.

The point is when punk originally started in the late 70s it was totally at odds to what was around at the time. That's why it took off the way it did , because it was different.

However 3 chord punk gets boring very quickly so you expand your sound. Some went for a more commercial sound , some went to electronica , some went to dub & reggae , and so on & so on.

And thats why punk died out as quick as it started. The people involved wanted to do something different and when that sound started to become commonplace they moved on to other things.

What passes off for punk since then is just people copying what went on before , which was the total opposite to what it supposed to be in the first place. How can you be reactionary doing something that's been old hat & commercialised for over 30 years?

That about sums it up.

I agree that it's more along the lines of "fake" punk then anything else, but IMO there are some legitamatley good skate-punk songs, but most of skate punk band's discographies as a whole are lacking.

I'm not trying to argue...I'm trying to figure this out. Don't mistake my questions for instigations. Yes you got it, this thread is for suggestions to me so i can expand my taste.

And before this thread, all i've ever heard the word pop being referred to is the music that EVERYONE hates. Because they use it in this context, "Ugh that's so poppy"

So sorry if I tend to associate that word with a descriptor of disgust. And I always thought that the Ramones were like the fathers of Punk, or at least that's what i've always been told. So calling them poppy seemed like a contradiction to me.

Like I said poppy/non poppy makes no difference.

Name me one band that sounded like The Ramones in 1976.

Nobody did , thats why they made the impact they did.

Get it now?

Yeah I got it, you don't have to be an ass about it. :(

This is why I think most people shouldn't catergorize music.

I think the general public doesn't really know ENOUGH about music to categorize it. Thankfully, there are people out there not like this, and most people on MB are said people.

One of the things that really really urks me especially is this discussion of punk, and its forefathers. If people actually looked in books and researched, they would know the story and evolution of punk.

In all honesty, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, but their opinion is only valid if its an educated one.

With that being said, I'm going to direct this next bit to Tobias. I think it's great that you are willing to learn more about music and branch out. But forget about catergorizing music. Forget about putting a label on it. Genres were designed to direct kids in records stores where to put the album on a shelf. Listen to what you want, for real real, and don't be focused on what's punk, and whats pop-punk. In the end, it's all the same - it's music. :)

I wasn't being an ass , you asked a question so I answered it.

I used to be into skate punk, but it gets very repetetive after a while (fast drumming, pop punk lyrics, and high pitched lead guitar). Now the only band that pleases me is Lagwagon, and I would most definitely say that they're a punk band, though they are quite poppy.

I think the best punk band of this day and age is Cancer Bats, though they're very metal-influenced.

I still love Lagwagon as well, but I hardly get around to listening to them. Punk-wise I'm more into the more alt. punk bands like Dead Boys, X, and Suicide Machines. I might have to check out Cancer Bats.

Hell no! For example, the Beach Boys were pop and they totally kicked ass.

The Ramones were the fathers of punk, but their sound was also a throwback to early 60s pop rock. It went against the grain because that's not what pop music sounded like in 70s, but their music still definitely had a pop quality to it.

New York Dolls - 1971.

And the New York Dolls hardly sold any records until much later.

Yes, the New York Dolls, like the Stooges, the MC5, the Dictators and the Velvet Underground were a big influence on punk, though not really a part of it themselves.

It's not about who SOLD more records. But they were playing punk rock music 3 years before the Ramone's even formed.

Some just need to get past the transvestite facade they had.

They were the original punk-rock.


No, friends, you need to check out some history books.

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but the general consensus, in the history books as you say, is that they were not a punk band but rather a glam band or at most a protopunk band. And if you want to get into a who came first discussion, the Velvet Underground predate the New York Dolls by six years.

The New York Dolls weren't doing anything The Rolling Stones weren't doing already. Never heard anyone say they started punk though.

The Deviants were doing the whole 'punk rock' thing in 1966 / 67.
It didn't take off then , Why?
Because people weren't ready for it. They even had a whole scene behind them , the whole UK counter culture scene.

But they never got being above a cult band because they didn't sell any records , so yes sales DO have a lot to do with it.

Punk would have never taken off the way it did if the Pistols hadn't been top of the charts & been on prime time TV.

Again, I'm sorry, I disagree. (And I can totally understand why you would disagree with me.)

I don't think the Ramone's were the first punk band. They were the first SUCCESSFUL punk band (with the Sex Pistols), however TNYD were the beginnings of punk. They fused glam rock with a new genre - punk. Their own.

(Also, I feel really bad that we totally took over Tobias' thread about the origins of punk. - However, everyone's opinions are super interesting...)

I don't suppose you'd be able to hook a guy up with that one by any chance? :)

I'll see what I can do ;)

But the Ramones weren't successful. They didn't start getting much in the way of attention until much later in their career. The fact of the matter is that nobody—not the Ramones, not the New York Dolls—simply invented punk out of thin air. It evolved its way into existence and it didn't have a particularly codified sound until the 80s, a time when many people were proclaiming it dead. People describe the Ramones as the fathers of punk because (a) they represent more of a departure from 70s pop rock than a band like the New York Dolls do and (b) because they were one of the early bands featured in Punk magazine.

The whole of the End Of The Century album was the Ramones basically saying to their record company 'We're not just some over the hill fad band , please don't drop us'.

I agree...that's why I have not learned about this genre placement. However it is hard to find music that I would like in a place like this which is categorized.

Fair enough. Beach Boys were the ****

It's cool, i'm learning :tramp:

Me too!!

Also, any way I can get the best album from each of the bands listed in this thread? or at least a few songs to judge them by?

I can help out. What specific bands?

pretty much the ones you posted

along with some of the other bands that were posted

Will do.
Be excpecting a PM.

Sweet!!

FaSho you are awesome. I REALLY like the music you sent me. Thanks

and I found another band I really like even though they are a bit mainstream, Framing Hanley