Gangster Rap
 

So you may or may not have noticed the argument that brewed in the "Punk is Sh*t" thread over gangster rap and the violence and such that it inspires. Some people feel it is close-minded to dismiss the genre while others disagree with its message. Other people see it as a necessary form of speech to speak out against things such as police brutality. What do you all think of the issue? Is it right for people to dismiss it or do these people need to just relax?

Well, I generally believe that art reflects reality, and so I don't feel that Gangsta rap actually inspires violence or gang culture. Apart from the odd idiot who was always going to be a **** up, people can generally appreciate music and not its message.

There are plenty of great artists in gangsta rap, and lyrically it does provide an outlet for social commentary and the odd uplifting message.
But having said that, the glorified violence, misogyny and inflated egos that are almost ubiquitous in the genre really do put me off a lot of the time, just because I can't take it seriously and they come off as idiots.

"If a kid goes around and shoots and whole lotta people in his high school, and is wearing a Marilyn Manson shirt, it doesn't mean Marilyn Manson made him do it, it just means he likes Marilyn Manson."

In my studies I have found that there is not much correlation at all between violent music and violent behaviour. So I can't really say that I dislike gangster rap because it encourages violence. I mean, how many of us play relatively violent video games? I highly doubt we've been inspired to go shoot or bash people up. (Or have we...)

That being said however, I don't like the genre for many other reasons, including several attitudes it endorses... like attitudes towards women for example. Not to mention that I also don't find the genre very talented or captivating. But that's just personal opinion.

This whole offensive to women thing in hip hop has always made me laugh.

It's like some rapper can say he wants to kill some guy , then call a woman a bitch , and yet it's the woman he's being hateful towards :laughing:

Yeah but the killing is always portrayed as glamourous, and if you get shot you're a noble gangster with a flashy memorial shrine of gangsters or whatever. But the women are never really shown in any positive sense. Plus the representation of women is more serious because rape/sexual abuse/ sexual assault/ gender discrimination is more prevalent in society than gangsters killing each other. But I'll shut up I don't want to get into this whole gender thing again, ha.

i think it's quite clear that gangsta rap, on the real hardcore more underground side, glorifies the violence and the lifestyle. in doing that, it would affect the way that people from deprived, gangland backgrounds view the lifestyle into which they have been born.

sure, it is true that it may not take somebody from a more privileged background and encourage them to become a drug-dealer, but it sure ain't doing much good for people who grow up in environments that make it almost certain they'll end up in a gang of some sort. in glorifying the lifestyle, it leads such people, rather than taking positive measures to try to get out of it, to rather just accept it as a part of life and a matter of course.

completely denying its effect on people from impoverished, gang-laden backgrounds is absurd and i can't see for a second how anybody could do so.

Maybe they're just passionate about violence. I would rather them sing about what their passionate about then what people want them to sing about.

What if they're passionate about rape? Does that make it good?

It doesn't make rape good, it might make the music good. Passion almost always equals good music.

Songs about raping or brutally killing people (in a non metaphorical sense) are not good, period.

You're clearly not a Coheed and Cambria fan then.






































































































Also, 1000 post bitchezzzz

No, not really. Congrats on the posts though.

Thanks.
Coheed can make rape and brutal killing melodic and interesting, and afte rlistening to them I'm not going to go rape someone, so what's the harm?

Well I used to listen to Coheed back in like 9th grade before I had a brain so I'll have to revisit them to see what you're talking about, but the thing is, they do it in a way that doesn't promote it, it doesn't glorify it. I'd be willing to bet that they use a lot of i figuratively also, whereas rap is quite literal with its meanings. I'll get back to you on the Coheed situation though.

I understand where your coming from, but can you think of a specific example? Not to mention a lot of darker metal does the same thing.

I'm sorry, but if somebody was singing passionately about rape or child molestation and glorifying the act I would have no respect for them or their music. And thus would not enjoy the music, at all. A lot of music to me is about meaning, and regardless of their musical talent I could not get into music thats meaning was rape or pedophilia.

QFT

What a joke. Hell, if you're going to tie your enjoyment of music to the moral value of the lyrics you might as well stay away from rap, metal, or rock and roll in general. You're like those nuts in the States that burned Iron Maiden albums because of the "satanic content" of The Number of the Beast.

I listen to metal and rock and roll in general and have never come across a song that is about violently raping someone or killing someone in a way that is enough for me to stop listening to it. So you can't say that all rock songs are satanic, evil, and violent. I'm definitely not like those "nuts" that burned Iron Maiden CDs or whatever, in fact I love a bit of controversy in music. But I seriously could not take someone's music seriously if they were outrightly singing about raping somebody or brutally murdering somebody and glamorizing it as a heroic lifestyle. Sure, a lot of stuff I listen to might have challenging moral value in the lyrics but none of it glamorizes truly immoral lifestyles.

And to go back on topic I think that is my main problem with a lot of gangster rap - it simply glamorizes crime culture, violence, and abuse towards women and makes these kinds of things heroic actions.

Amen, lateralus

And further, the songs in question take the easy route. Anyone can talk about killing people and make sexist slurs.... Use some figurative language, be creative, emotional, do something productive. Maybe then I'll listen to you. And for the record, I think Number of the Beast is a boring song.

Dac needs some Nas and MF Doom if he's gonna complain about figurative language.

And I recall someone on the forum (no names, he's mah dawg) saying they didn't respect South Park Mexican because he molested little girls. But he said he still liked his music. And I chuckled.

Gangster rap is fine to me. I haven't come across any song about rape or violently killing someone so far. Maybe "I shot the little suckah" comes in every now and then, but rape? Not happenin.

When we were discussing it earlier I don't think we were referring to rape directly but more the way they refer to women in a way that could provoke derogatory actions. (i.e. that women are just "bitches" and "hoes". A hoe implies that she is someone you can take advantage of sexually. etc.)

Anyway, gangster rap just doesn't do it for me. I just don't think it's a very creative genre.

check Season of the Sickness by Brotha Lynch Hung

Who gives a **** if their glamourising rape or murder, it doesn't mean people will go out and do it. Also, i find rappers talking about killing ho's and what not far more engaging than hero MF DOOMS nonsensical bull**** although i am a DOOM fan.

Rap/Sing about what your passionate about is all I ask. If you don't like it you don't have to listen it and ruin it for the rest of us.
/thread

I take it there's rape and violent killing?

And I think Death/Black Metal would probably be more graphic about things like what the past arguments were about.

Lateralus: Not all women are hoes. Just the hoes are hoes.

It's okay if you don't like music because of immoral content. What I took issue with was Dac's assertion that music cannot be good if the lyrics go to violent or otherwise reprehensible extremes. That's ridiculous. I personally dig NWA's "**** Tha Police" despite the fact that Ice Cube talks about starting a bloodbath of cops.

That's a different subject entirely. The problem with gangsta rap these days isn't the brutal lyrics, but the general lack of creativity and innovation.

Freedom of Speech bitchez, they can rap about whatever they want. My problem is when they rap about rape or whatever because they think it makes them popular. What kind of ****ed up world do we live in where rape is cool?

Well, I figure it's more about telling a story than trying to make it seem 'cool'.

Then it's completley fine with me if they are "just telling a story".

Yeah me, too, I'm fine with it in that respect, too. I'm not fine with it, if they're just glamorizing it and singing about it to look cool.

And FYI yes some men think abusing women is cool. We live in a pretty ****ed up world.

Who does glamorize rape anyway?
I see a lot of accusations being thrown around but no actual examples.

This isn't a gangster rap example but stuff like this:


I know I always see images like this in rap videos and such, through the way they dance and move around with the women in the clip... etc. I can't be bothered searching through YouTube for one.

I agree with Lateralus wholeheartedly. Gangster Rap isn't the main offender when it comes to rape, but everyday ads that don't get questioned by parents, such as the one above. It's very subtle, because it's always been accepted that the woman is the one that's supposed to go down on the man/be submissive. I would argue that blowjobs are more popular than actual sex.

Yeah, like this:
http://www.alldivamedia.com/blog/wp-...fensivead1.jpg

And ones where the woman is kneeling and the man is standing. They're EVERYWHERE.

In contrast, the above ad can be used against both male and female archetypes. The male is supposed to be able to satisfy, protect, and care for a woman, just as the woman is supposed to submit, be protected, and tend to her protector. I know that the argument seems almost elementary, but really dig for these signs in any ad, both printed and on television (nowadays in the internet, also). We like to think gender roles have changed, but thousands of years of rules still live among us.

I laughed at that for about a milisecond then felt really bad. I understand the point. Music is a part of culture, so are advertisements, so It's culturally acceptable to have ads like that,which is wrong.

Personally I think just focusing on one aspect such as rape takes away from the point if someone is arguing about the negative effect of Gangsta Rap.

I'd be much more concerned about it giving the impression that it's ok to do anything bad without any consequence.

As for that ad , well it's not like the fashion industry are known for being paragons of virtue , and it's pretty much dominated by other women and gay men anyway. I doubt that ad got made because of any misogynistic tendencies any straight men might have.

As for the dancing , well I could probably find dancing like that in ballet if I looked for it. Is there really much difference in simulating forceful sex and simulating rape in dance? I couldn't say, i've never really looked for it.

This was originally about songs like "**** the cops" by NWA, and you obviously don't see messages like that as much in advertising.

The intentions do not have to be there. It's all preconceived. See, even if it were true that the fashion industry was all women and *** men, they still realize that people will immediately get the ad above and laugh, as FaSho did. It's funny because we all get it, because we have all accepted a man and woman's place in society, even if we know that it is "un-enlightened" to think that way.

Oh, and I agree with the Gangsta Rap message being "no consequences."