Most inaccessible albums/artists ever (lyrics, hardcore, metal, punk)

DJ Phoenix · 07-23-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

Theres stuff that once upon a time would have been considered incredibly inacessible, but now we'll call it pop, we call My Bloody Valentine pop, but if they were around 30 years earlier, they wouldn't have been considered pop, they would have been considered insane. So it depends on the person really.

Some things that are accessible to me are not accessible to others, and some stuff thats considered accessible to others is not at all accessible to me. One good example is Psychocandy by The Jesus & Mary Chain, for whatever reason this album is considered "pop". Pretty much anything could be considered pop these days, I mean you make songs that sound like they were recorded at a construction site, and somehow people not only call it pop, they even call it accessible. Well not for me, to me it just sounds like Metal Machine Music with someone humming Beach Boys melodies over it, that dosen't make it accessible.

To be honest with you: Unless I'm thinking of another MBV? they were(still are?) considered somewhat "Goth" as well? Unless of course, as I said, there's another "My Bloody Valentine" band out there?

Also, J&MC I would think would be more new wave-ish, or synthpop, than "pop"? I could be wrong, but I do believe that album(Psychocandy) is considered their landmark album, and I've heard their stuff played in goth/80s clubs before.

I would consider them more pop friendly, but I don't even know if thats the right word to call them anymore?

Good thread.

cardboard adolescent · 07-23-2008, 01:46 AM

I'd say The Ascension by John Coltrane, which is more of a swirling mess than any no wave group I've ever heard, or Tod Dockstader's Quatermass, which has to be the most alienating record I own. AMM and Peter Brotzmann Octet are close contenders. There are also a lot of early modernist "tone cluster" compositions which are pretty damn obtuse.

I've found though that once you gain an appreciation for sound itself, detached from any melodic system, "inaccessible" music stops being the weird, noisy, droney stuff, and becomes rather what doesn't click with your personality. Like indie folk or soul music for me. I just can't get into it.

Oh, and Glenn Branca is a genius.

~~CAPTAIN CAVEMAN~~ · 07-23-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

I've found though that once you gain an appreciation for sound itself, detached from any melodic system, "inaccessible" music stops being the weird, noisy, droney stuff, and becomes rather what doesn't click with your personality. Like indie folk or soul music for me. I just can't get into it.

agreed

but,

khanate

might be the sort of thing you're looking for boo boo.

Rainard Jalen · 07-23-2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

Some things that are accessible to me are not accessible to others, and some stuff thats considered accessible to others is not at all accessible to me.

Your post is very much imo an implicit anti-indie/alt rant but we've had enough arguments about that already. I think you sum up the crux of the matter in that quote over there. Accessibility at the end of the day is REALLY relative. For example, I personally don't find Mariah Carey particularly accessible, whereas she's like the best selling artist ever or something?!

I think "accessible" is merely a synonym for "listenable". So if something is of the sort of thing that one enjoys listening to, then for that person it is accessible. Sigh. This sounds like stating the bleedin' obvious and I feel stupid writing it. I think I can probably take it a step further, though.

Perhaps "accessibility" could be defined in terms of what the general populace find accessible. That would allow it to be slightly more restricted in what it may encompass. In that case, the most of us on these boards, the proggies of us, the metalheads of us, the indie-kids of us, the hardcore rap fans, whatever, the lot of us listen to very inaccessible music - and that is the dividing line between casual music listeners and very serious well-researched diehard niche music fans. We're not chart whores. We look for something more out of what we listen to. So we're automatically listening, all the time, to music that is plainly inaccessible to the rest of the population. Hell, even the slightly more mainstream indie stuff like TV On The Radio for example is absolutely unbearable to your average listener, even a person who might've been a big fan of music throughout the 60s/70s (like my dad).

I remember when I first started listening to "niche" music: the band was Tool. At the time, I thought it was the sort of thing that few people would be able to listen to. From the perspective of considering a lot of the stuff I listen to presently, Tool is pretty accessible by comparison. I suppose it really depends what the music is, and what it is being compared to. I mean, boo boo can't listen to Deerhoof at all. To me, Deerhoof is some of the most listenable indie I've come across. I think something like Deerhoof is an awful lot more listenable than the likes of Neu or Can (both of whom I also like).

On the topic of pop, I'd like to address this too. Pop has a number of different meanings and uses. It could, on the one hand, simply be an umbrella term for anything that'd fall under "easy listening". This is the most common meaning for the word. Then, there is the broader meaning of "pop". In this latter meaning, pop refers more to an aesthetic. It means that the music gravitates towards melody, hooks, and bright arrangements, or at least one of those three things. Barring any of that, it would be weird to refer to music as "pop". I agree that Psychocandy isn't really all that poppy at all and am not sure why the band were labeled noise pop as opposed to noise rock.

boo boo · 07-23-2008, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainard Jalen

Perhaps "accessibility" could be defined in terms of what the general populace find accessible. That would allow it to be slightly more restricted in what it may encompass. In that case, the most of us on these boards, the proggies of us, the metalheads of us, the indie-kids of us, the hardcore rap fans, whatever, the lot of us listen to very inaccessible music - and that is the dividing line between casual music listeners and very serious well-researched diehard niche music fans. We're not chart whores. We look for something more out of what we listen to. So we're automatically listening, all the time, to music that is plainly inaccessible to the rest of the population. Hell, even the slightly more mainstream indie stuff like TV On The Radio for example is absolutely unbearable to your average listener, even a person who might've been a big fan of music throughout the 60s/70s (like my dad).

I remember when I first started listening to "niche" music: the band was Tool. At the time, I thought it was the sort of thing that few people would be able to listen to. From the perspective of considering a lot of the stuff I listen to presently, Tool is pretty accessible by comparison. I suppose it really depends what the music is, and what it is being compared to. I mean, boo boo can't listen to Deerhoof at all. To me, Deerhoof is some of the most listenable indie I've come across. I think something like Deerhoof is an awful lot more listenable than the likes of Neu or Can (both of whom I also like).

Yeah, it's all about taste really. I know it's funny that I call anything inaccessible when I'm constantly raving about great these guys are.

FireInCairo · 08-15-2008, 05:43 AM

has anyone mentioned metal machine music by Lou Reed yet?
even Lou doesn't understand how anyone could sit through the entire thing...
mmm...meandering atonal feedback

**Janszoon** · 08-15-2008, 08:02 AM

Has anyone mentioned Adult Themes for Voice by Mike Patton yet? I've owned that one since it first came out and though I love the idea that this album exists I bet I've only ever made it all the way through the thing twice in the past twelve years.

Also, Yes Sir, I Will by Crass is also a pretty tough listen. If you listen to bits and pieces of it, it doesn't sound like it would be, but the album as a whole feels like you're listening to the stuff that happened in between songs and they never got around to actually making the album.

lucifer_sam · 08-15-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Has anyone mentioned Adult Themes for Voice by Mike Patton yet? I've owned that one since it first came out and though I love the idea that this album exists I bet I've only ever made it all the way through the thing twice in the past twelve years.

Also, Yes Sir, I Will by Crass is also a pretty tough listen. If you listen to bits and pieces of it, it doesn't sound like it would be, but the album as a whole feels like you're listening to the stuff that happened in between songs and they never got around to actually making the album.

Crass was the precursor to modern political punk, and Yes Sir, I Will was the defining pinnacle of their career. They aren't much harder on the ears than any other hardcore punk act.

I'd say that alotta Grindcore is pretty inaccessible, but that's just because it sounds like everything I hate about punk and everything I hate about metal at the same time. =p

**Janszoon** · 08-15-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Crass was the precursor to modern political punk, and Yes Sir, I Will was the defining pinnacle of their career. They aren't much harder on the ears than any other hardcore punk act.

Other stuff I've heard by Crass doesn't sound like Yes Sir, I Will and I'd say that album is far less accessible than other hardcore. It's not that it's noisy that makes it inaccessible, it's that it never seems to go anywhere. Hence my comment about it sounding like they never got around to making the album.

I'm actually kind of curious what hardcore bands you're thinking of that you feel have a similar level of accessibility/non-accessibility to the sound Crass had on that album because most hardcore I can think of is much easier to digest than Yes Sir, I Will. I do like challenging myself with "difficult" music so: Suggestions?

lucifer_sam · 08-15-2008, 09:34 PM

I dunno. Crass were very unique, not so much hard to digest but really strange. I consider Black Flag, Minor Threat, and Suicidal Tendencies my limits of punk music...

08-15-2008, 08:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	Has anyone mentioned Adult Themes for Voice by Mike Patton yet? I've owned that one since it first came out and though I love the idea that this album exists I bet I've only ever made it all the way through the thing twice in the past twelve years. Also, Yes Sir, I Will by Crass is also a pretty tough listen. If you listen to bits and pieces of it, it doesn't sound like it would be, but the album as a whole feels like you're listening to the stuff that happened in between songs and they never got around to actually making the album. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

08-15-2008, 09:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	I dunno. Crass were very unique, not so much hard to digest but really strange. I consider Black Flag, Minor Threat, and Suicidal Tendencies my limits of punk music... __________________ first.am

07-23-2008, 01:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,511	I'd say The Ascension by John Coltrane, which is more of a swirling mess than any no wave group I've ever heard, or Tod Dockstader's Quatermass, which has to be the most alienating record I own. AMM and Peter Brotzmann Octet are close contenders. There are also a lot of early modernist "tone cluster" compositions which are pretty damn obtuse. I've found though that once you gain an appreciation for sound itself, detached from any melodic system, "inaccessible" music stops being the weird, noisy, droney stuff, and becomes rather what doesn't click with your personality. Like indie folk or soul music for me. I just can't get into it. Oh, and Glenn Branca is a genius.

08-15-2008, 05:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
FireInCairo Later on... Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,235	has anyone mentioned metal machine music by Lou Reed yet? even Lou doesn't understand how anyone could sit through the entire thing... mmm...meandering atonal feedback