sleepy jack

I don't know why you'd suggest him Five Leaves Left when he disliked the acoustic stuff since Bryter Layter is almost completely full band and way better.

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ProggyMan

I'm not recommending it, I'm just saying it's better.

Seltzer

Yeah, Five Leaves Left is quite good... at the moment I prefer Bryter Layter though and I suggested it because it's completely different to Pink Moon.

I enjoy Pink Moon, but I find it manages to become a bit repetitive, even within 28 minutes.

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jackhammer

Already this has descended into chaos. Many thanks to Jayjamjah to provide a counterpoint and that is what I wanted more.
I will change the format with the proviso that any album that starts discussion, needs a week on show to provide argument and counter argument.

A PM with an album idea will place you next in line and a week of debate.

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sl1ck

You want specific examples of Led Zeppelin stealing songs/riffs/lyrics? I can give you plently off the top of my head, Page made a career off of ripping off other artists, especially blues artists and then giving himself songwriting credits. There is nothing wrong with covering a song, as long as credit is given. So, some songs Led Zeppelin "adapted" (a lot of times just changed the song title slightly for the original):
"Dazed and Confused" was by Jake Holmes, "Whole Lotta Love" was adapted from a Willie Dixon song called "You Need Love," ""How Many More Years" is adapted from Howlin' Wolf's -"How Many More Times," "Gallow's Pole" was nicked from Leadbelly's "Gallis Tree," "Black Mountainside" was adapted from Bert Janch's "Black Waterside," ""Bron- Y-Stomp" was adapted from a Bert Jansch/John Renbourn arrangement of "The Waggoner's Lad."

In some cases they almost word for word took lyrics. In others the songs are basically covers of the original, except with Plant/Page taking songwriting credits. There are plenty of other Zeppelin tunes that Page lifted from places, he consistently ripped parts of songs off from other artists. Anything that is a Zeppelin original is guaranteed to have poor songwriting and generally poor composition.

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sleepy jack

Okay to be fair to Led Zeppelin; blues artists made a career out of doing the same thing and since none of them had the impact or popularity Led Zeppelin did no one really cares. Hell even folk artists did it, ever listened to the "originals" on Dylan's debut? Song to Woody sounds exactly like 1913 Massacre yet he took all the songwriting credits.

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sl1ck

That is true, a lot of Zeppelin songs were blues standards (especially their debut). A lot of blues artists covered each other's work and I don't think anyone cared much.

However, I think Page was deliberately dishonest on several occasions. Namely with Jake Holmes and "Dazed and Confused." He saw Holmes live and was inspired by the song. So he reworked it with the Yardbirds and claimed it as his own. Holmes has never received any royalties for the song and Page denied knowing who Holmes was or who did the original version of "Dazed and Confused." When Holmes contacted Led Zeppelin about the matter, they didn't even bother to respond to his inquiry.

Page doesn't seem to respect old blues artists, nor does he seem to care if they are credited or not. Plus the practice of changing the song titles is pretty suspicious.

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sl1ck

Fair enough, I'm not trying to piss people off. Boo Boo seemed to want some examples of songs, so I hope I was able to help him out. I try to keep things as factual as possible, my apologies for opinionated statements.

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sleepy jack

Which is funny seeing as I just stuck up for Led Zeppelin.

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boo boo

Looks like somebody did a quick copy and paste job here. I've heard all these examples being used, countless times. And I've heard all the songs that Page allegedly stole from. And this is what I think of your piss poor examples.

Dazed and Confused - For one, thats not a stolen riff, ITS A COVER. Zeps spin of the song is very different anyway. Pages playing on that song is entirely original.

Seriously, tell me this

YouTube - Dazed and Confused

and this

YouTube - Led Zeppelin - Dazed And Confused

Are the same.

Whole Lotta Love - You know what this song stole from You Need Love? The Lyrics. AND THATS IT, THATS ALL THEY STOLE. And how about Zeppelins lyrics, oh yeah, no serious Zep fan is gonna tell you they had great lyrics.

This is the Willie Dixon song You Need Love.

YouTube - Willie Dixon -- You need love

No sale.

How Many More Times - First off, you had it backwards, it was the Howlin Wolf song thats called How Many More Years. Now this is a better example, it most certainly isn't a ripoff though, but its clearly an inspiration, particarly the vocal melody, but the music and structure is insanely different, not the same song at all. And hilariously enough you miss the point yet again, Pages riff on HMMT is not stolen from anything, it was an original contribution. Do you hear the riff in this song?

YouTube - Howlin' Wolf - How Many More Years

Didn't think so.

Gallows Pole - What you failed to realise is, this is actually a version of a centuries old folk song, Lead Belly did NOT pen this song, he just made a famous recording of it. Its not known who actually wrote it, so you can't blame Zeppelin for not crediting anyone.

Black Mountain Side - This time you're right, it pretty much is a ripoff of blackwaterside. So congrats you managed to make one good example.

Too bad Black Mountain Side is one of the most forgetable tracks Zeppelin have ever done.

Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp - Ok, yeah its pretty much the same riff, I would call that a stolen riff, IF it weren't for the fact that Jansch didn't write The Waggoners Lad and that its yet another traditional song with no credited writer. Everything else about this song is original, the lyrics and the vocals, so they made it their own.

So what I'm getting at here is. You just failed on a massive level.

Someone call the cops, Zeppelin stole lyrics? And all this time we thought Plant was such a brilliant lyricist. Oh wait. Nope, who cares?

Only Dazed & Confused comes to mind, which is still vastly different from the original in both the way it sounds and its overall structure, usually when Zeppelin covered something, they added a lot to it and made it their own.

I'm not gonna defend them for that. But it dosen't justify all the lies, and there are many lies.

And yet you fail to make any examples. They can't possibly be as laughable as the ones you just gave, or can they?

Besides, Ethan is actually right, do you even know anything about the structure of 8 and 12 barre blues or the blues scale? Its awfully simple and generic. Its not unusual at all for blues guitarists to have riffs or solos that sound similar to another by just sheer coincidence.



Absolutely not.

Music fans like you make me sick to my stomach, its not that you don't like Zeppelin, I'm used to people hating Zep. But its when you take a lot of these exagerations and downright filthy lies passed down from many a bitter douchebag going to extremes just to try and discredit a band they don't like.

And thats the thing, you obviously did no research on this matter AT ALL, you just read it on Wikipedia and some other websites and instantly took it for truth, because you want a lousy excuse to justify your elitist attitude about Led Zeppelin and their fans.

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