Best Artist: Round 2: Poll C (albums, beatles, quote, artists)

sleepy jack · 04-23-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

Also, Yes are more original than Modest Mouse (who are just ripping off Built to Spill).

And ELP is more original than Animal Collective (who are just copying early 90s Flaming Lips)

Where did I ever claim Yes and ELP were less original than Animal Collective and Modest Mouse? I may like the latter two bands more but I never said they were more important. The irrelevancy needs to stop seriously.

boo boo · 04-23-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I don't see how its much different than all the 90s alternative guitar rock, British Pharaoh seems to have no problem with me saying its unoriginal in fact you agreed with him when he said they should be praised for doing the same thing as their contemporaries and standing out while doing it. Weird how you're saying something different now.

I just said hes right about his overall point, which is that a bands originality dosen't matter if they stand out among their comtemporaries. That is very true. But thats all I was agreeing with.

Quote:

I never said they were, just more original.

You seemed to be trying to make the point that originality = importance.

Quote:

Who else sounds like the Fall of Troy?

Who else sounded like The Smashing Pumpkins before The Smashing Pumpkins?

Quote:

Yeah but we're not comparing a fairly unknown act to a popular one. We're talking Beck and The Smashing Pumpkins.

And originality dosen't give Beck any kind of edge, it all boils down to personal preference, thats it, I'm also pretty sure the Pumpkins are more influencial, you may hate most of these bands they influenced, but I'd say that makes them more important than how original they were.

Beck is also more original than Nirvana, but he sure as hell ain't more important.

British_pharaoh · 04-23-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

How is it just as important? Maybe you should explain this before you make such claims because I don't see it as anything more than your typical 90s alternative guitar rock album and I hardly think it deserves to be placed next to Odelay or Loveless. Slanted & Enchanted, Ten, Nevermind (ignoring the impact factor), and the Blue Album sure because those are championed as classics but not necessarily innovative or groundbreaking ones.

again I refer back to the inferiority subject

innovation shouldn't be heralded just because it's new and original, there are a ton of really bad experimental bands and all innovation leaves behind a trail of ****e.

Smashing Pumpkins weren't the Velvets or Frank Zappa but they hardly made '**** music' as you call it

they just made one of the best alternative rock albums ever
Siamese Dream is important because it raised the bar of what an alternative rock record should sound like and became the face for the whole Alternative Rock genre.

and you're still dodging

Quote:

You'd put The Velvet Underground and Nico up with say Rubber Soul or Pet Sounds wouldn't you?

well you bloody should do anyway

now the latter 2 are hardly as innovative and experimental as the Velvets but they are still marvellous albums that are held in just as high esteem and by a lot of people maybe even higher

whether or not I know your opinions on the above albums doesn't matter

what matters is not many people in music would disagree with grouping those 3 albums together in terms of being 3 magnificent albums of the 60's

now they are all different pieces of work
but wouldn't you call all of them important?
would you put the Velvets higher than the Beatles jsut on the basis of innovation and experimentation??

GravitySlips · 04-23-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I repeat: "Yeah but we're not comparing a fairly unknown act to a popular one. We're talking Beck and The Smashing Pumpkins."

yes but the point still stands.

originality does not necessarily result in importance, so you can't dismiss the Pumpkins as less important, or less deserving of acclaim, than Beck just because they're not as original.

British_pharaoh · 04-23-2008, 08:22 PM

influence becomes a bigger factor here also

more bands have been influenced by the Pumpkins than Beck or My Bloody Valentine

granted Alternative Rock is a much more popular genre and certainly more accessible but facts are facts

Laces Out Dan! · 04-23-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

The Smashing Pumpkins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fall of Troy.

I forgot how you have the world's greatest taste in music and can tell when a band is better than another. Doesn't even matter on what circumstances. If you believe they're better, they really must be. We can all stop arguing now, Boo Boo has spoken.

GravitySlips · 04-23-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British_pharaoh

more bands have been influenced by the Pumpkins than Beck or My Bloody Valentine

i'm not sure about that, i'd have thought MBV would've had a bigger overall influence than the Pumpkins.

boo boo · 04-23-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesPaul43

I forgot how you have the world's greatest taste in music and can tell when a band is better than another. Doesn't even matter on what circumstances. If you believe they're better, they really must be. We can all stop arguing now, Boo Boo has spoken.

I was exagerating because he pissed me off.

Smashing Pumpkins >>>>> The Fall of Troy

There, less arrows, you happy?

sleepy jack · 04-23-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British_pharaoh

again I refer back to the inferiority subject

innovation shouldn't be heralded just because it's new and original, there are a ton of really bad experimental bands and all innovation leaves behind a trail of ****e.

Smashing Pumpkins weren't the Velvets or Frank Zappa but they hardly made '**** music' as you call it

they just made one of the best alternative rock albums ever

Siamese Dream is important because it raised the bar of what an alternative rock record should sound like and became the face for the whole Alternative Rock genre.

I can see that and thinking about it I'd rather listen to Nevermind though I don't care for either but I hardly think doing something different for one scene makes it better than an album that did something for music as a whole.

Quote:

and you're still dodging

Yeah I replied saying it was irrelevant because you don't even know my opinion on those three albums. The Beatles obviously had more impact than the Velvets because the Beatles are probably the most popular band in the world but we're comparing two bands of similar popularity Beck and the Smashing Pumpkins. Odelay introduced something brand new to the music world and your argument for Siamese Dream is raised the bar...for one music scene.

Quote:

whether or not I know your opinions on the above albums doesn't matter

what matters is not many people in music would disagree with grouping those 3 albums together in terms of being 3 magnificent albums of the 60's

I wouldn't disagree with Siamese Dream ending up on a best album of the 90s list, I never said I would even though I don't like it. I would disagree with it being placed higher than Loveless and Odelay.

Quote:

now they are all different pieces of work
but wouldn't you call all of them important?
would you put the Velvets higher than the Beatles jsut on the basis of innovation and experimentation??

I basically replied to why the Beatles would probably rank higher because their impact was much more scene and the Beatles WERE actually quite experimental and introduced tons of new things. I think a more apt comparison for Siamese Dream vs. Odelay wouldn't be two experimental albums anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by British_pharaoh

influence becomes a bigger factor here also

more bands have been influenced by the Pumpkins than Beck or My Bloody Valentine

granted Alternative Rock is a much more popular genre and certainly more accessible but facts are facts

See I completely disagree with that. I think Odelay quite a bit of impact, though it's kind of hard to see because Odelay still sounds just like Odelay and no one's copied it but it still had enough impact to where its comparable, and I think comparing the Smashing Pumpkins impact to My Bloody Valentines's is just laughable.

British_pharaoh · 04-23-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I can see that and thinking about it I'd rather listen to Nevermind though I don't care for either but I hardly think doing something different for one scene makes it better than an album that did something for music as a whole.

Yeah I replied saying it was irrelevant because you don't even know my opinion on those three albums. The Beatles obviously had more impact than the Velvets because the Beatles are probably the most popular band in the world but we're comparing two bands of similar popularity Beck and the Smashing Pumpkins. Odelay introduced something brand new to the music world and your argument for Siamese Dream is raised the bar...for one music scene.

I wouldn't disagree with Siamese Dream ending up on a best album of the 90s list, I never said I would even though I don't like it. I would disagree with it being placed higher than Loveless and Odelay.

I basically replied to why the Beatles would probably rank higher because their impact was much more scene and the Beatles WERE actually quite experimental and introduced tons of new things. I think a more apt comparison for Siamese Dream vs. Odelay wouldn't be two experimental albums anyway.

See I completely disagree with that. I think Odelay quite a bit of impact, though it's kind of hard to see because Odelay still sounds just like Odelay and no one's copied it but it still had enough impact to where its comparable, and I think comparing the Smashing Pumpkins impact to My Bloody Valentines's is just laughable.

yeah i was gonna edit that bit but i knew it had probably already been read
lol

View Poll Results: Pick an artist
Beach Boys, The	10	23.26%
Fall of Troy, The	8	18.60%
Smashing Pumpkins, The	8	18.60%
Yes	10	23.26%
Wire	7	16.28%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

04-23-2008, 08:22 PM	#45 (permalink)
British_pharaoh Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 454	influence becomes a bigger factor here also more bands have been influenced by the Pumpkins than Beck or My Bloody Valentine granted Alternative Rock is a much more popular genre and certainly more accessible but facts are facts __________________ "I hate Purity, I hate Goodness, I don't want virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone corrupt to the bones" Fat Ed's Guide To Metal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfdqV_sqal0