The Explain Why You Like This Album ('cause i don't understand) Thread

[SATCHMO]

pretentious |priˈten ch əs|
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed : a pretentious literary device.

[gunnels]

Trying to explain why I love Trout Mask Replica is like trying to explain why I love maple syrup and horseradish on pastrami. I can't do it.

It's the ultimate weird album for weird people.

[5-Track]

Originally Posted by gunnels

Trying to explain why I love Trout Mask Replica is like trying to explain why I love maple syrup and horseradish on pastrami. I can't do it.

It's the ultimate weird album for weird people.

I took a couple of months one summer and listened to every Beefheart album in order of release. There weren't many bits that I didn't like, but there are also only a few bits that I come back to again and again.

Something that I love but don't have a copy of is the alternate takes of Trout Mask Replica that were recorded, sans vocal, at the Magic Band house. The tones and just the general vibe are wonderful. And, honestly, it sounds really good without Vliet singing.

That said, I'm a fan of his voice, and my favorite moments of his singing mainly happen on Ice Cream For Crow: "The Past Sure Is Tense" and "The 1010th Day Of The Human Totem Pole" ... I also greatly enjoy "There Ain't No Santa Claus On The Evening Stage" and "Her Eyes Are A Blue Million Miles" from earlier records. And the way the band plays on Mirror Man, Safe As Milk, and Strictly Personal is wonderful wonderful wonderful.

Lotta good stuff in that man's catalog...

Bottom line for me is that he has genuine soul and feeling in his absolutely undeniable weirdness. He means it, whatever it is.

Interviews where he talks about preferring a goose to Eric Dolphy, or that he tries not to distinguish between singing and talking but to make both equally musically expressive in or out of a performance context, those things start to point to what he's about. So does the idea that he's a sculptor working in sound through the medium of musicians (difficult to say the least, as anyone who's ever tried to lead a band will understand...) ...

I don't mean to say that most, or other, musicians are basically insincere, or that Beefheart doesn't have certain obvious influences (Howlin Wolf), nor is he for every taste, and there are times when he is very hard for even a fan to listen to. I mainly reserve Trout Mask for alarming visitors.

[lucifer_sam]

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

pretentious |priˈten ch əs|
adjective
attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed : a pretentious literary device.

i'm well aware of what pretensions constitute. i fail to see what that has anything to do with Beefheart.

[mr dave]

Originally Posted by gunnels

It's the ultimate weird album for weird people.

this is what bothers me most about TMR

self-described weird people from all over the net call it the ultimate weird album for weird people like themselves without taking the time to recognize that when they're discussing music online they're no longer the weird ones.

i don't consider any of the music i listen to as weird, just what I like. whether it's the residents, zappa, sun ra, the 'weird' factor is irrelevant. while it 'would' likely be considered weird if i tried discussing some of these bands with social peers in a face to face situation i'd also be forced to discuss music with people who think ragging about 'theory of a dead nickel creed' is a hilarious play on words as opposed to being so lame it's not even worth the effort of rolling my eyes.

[mr dave]

Originally Posted by 5-Track

Interviews where he talks about preferring a goose to Eric Dolphy,

this makes me sad

[boo boo]

I like my Zappa, Residents, Henry Cow, John Zorn and Mr. Bungle.

So no, it's not just because I think Beefheart is "weird and pretentious", though I do think he's very pretentious, the problem is people shouldn't confuse challenging music with great music. While the bands I mentioned do things outside of the norm they're still very talented composers and musicians, which is not the opinion I have when it comes to Beefheart, a think his band does most of the work anyway.

He had some talented backing musicians, Zoot Horn Rollo had some great guitar licks and Trout Mask Replica wouldn't have been sh*t without him I don't think.

Beefheart himself was an interesting personality, that goes without saying, I don't however consider him a musical genius. I appreciate his massive influence but that can't stop me from liking just about everything Beefheart influenced more than Beefheart himself.

Besides, the best stuff he did was when he sang for Zappa.

[Antonio]

when i first listened to TMR, i loved it. can't explain why, i just loved the cacophany and chaos packed into the album, like a blues band on meth.

really, all i can say is that sometimes it's boring to listen to music that's crafted to sound good, sometimes i just want something that sounds wrong and messed up. if i just listened to music that was always pleasent sounding, i'd be bored out of my skull. and by music that isn't pleasent sounding, i don't mean bands with ****ty songs, like Nickelback or the like; those artists intended to make music that was pleasing to the human ear, but didn't really do too well. i mean music that's purposely made to sound bad. like i said before, i can't explain why i like it, i just have an urge inside me for some crazy music.


as for Vliet himself, i love his songwriting, so strange and really something that i like to sit back and analyze. his voice may be a bit abrasive at times, but when he gets it right, it sounds great.

[lucifer_sam]

Originally Posted by boo boo

I like my Zappa, Residents, Henry Cow, John Zorn and Mr. Bungle.

So no, it's not just because I think Beefheart is "weird and pretentious", though I do think he's very pretentious, the problem is people shouldn't confuse challenging music with great music. While the bands I mentioned do things outside of the norm they're still very talented composers and musicians, which is not the opinion I have when it comes to Beefheart, a think his band does most of the work anyway.

He had some talented backing musicians, Zoot Horn Rollo had some great guitar licks and Trout Mask Replica wouldn't have been sh*t without him I don't think.

Beefheart himself was an interesting personality, that goes without saying, I don't however consider him a musical genius. I appreciate his massive influence but that can't stop me from liking just about everything Beefheart influenced more than Beefheart himself.

Besides, the best stuff he did was when he sang for Zappa.

i still don't understand how people can be so belabored under the impression that there were ANY pretensions to Beefheart's music, let alone culling him under the same garbage banner that's befitting of 99% of prog bands.

i liken TMR to other material Frank Zappa's produced with the underlying difference that it's entirely devoid of cynicism and sarcasm. there's still the trademark Beefheart humor that makes him such a heartwarming character. and it seems overtly cynical to challenge him with being showy when TMR represents the same acute character that created it.

as for his status as a musician, no, i don't consider Van Vliet a musical "genius." but at the same time there was hardly any virtuosity imposed upon his music; he eschewed traditional technique and structure for his own peculiar brand of delivery. and that, perhaps, is why so many artists look upon him with fond eyes; that he learned to create a world unto himself without resorting to limit himself within socially acceptable norms.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

i still don't understand how people can be so belabored under the impression that there were ANY pretensions to Beefheart's music, let alone culling him under the same garbage banner that's befitting of 99% of prog bands.

Oh you.

I don't consider Beefheart prog, don't worry, I find that that to be truly insulting to the genre.

i liken TMR to other material Frank Zappa's produced with the underlying difference that it's entirely devoid of cynicism and sarcasm.

That's my main concern, he actually takes himself seriously, and so do his fans, that's really frightening.

there's still the trademark Beefheart humor that makes him such a heartwarming character. and it seems overtly cynical to challenge him with being showy when TMR represents the same acute character that created it.

But it's very clear to anyone that he was trying to make his music sound as sh*tty and obnoxious as possible.