DontRunMeOver

Please do. There doesn't seem to be much soul in prog-anything as it is and right now you two are truly draining the already drought-struck well.

__________________

boo boo

Well im giving up trying to change this guys way of thinking anyway, once a dumbass always a dumbass i guess.

Don has been involved with longer arguements than this (remember the emo thread), and not just with me, he has a way of pretty much pissing everyone here off....Urban and Misfits especialy.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

boo boo

How so?

You could say the same about classical music if you really think all music that dosent rely on great vocals or lyrics lacks emotion...And how can you say a band cant be emotional instrumentaly?

I know emotion and soul is all based on opinion, i can understand that some people like Dream Theater and i can understand that some people dont like Yes.

But i cant understand how someone could hate Yes and love Dream Theater, its way beyond my capability of understanding.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

DontRunMeOver

To me, all prog music I've heard (apart from Queen, depending on whether you want to call that prog or not) was a musical equivalent of an idiot sitting a philosophy exam. All pretention, concept and pseudo-cleverness. My biggest problem with it, though, is how badly structured most prog is. Ok, by most I mean, the music I've heard in the prog genre, which put me off wanting to hear much more.

In classical music, as the analogous example you mentioned, there are changes in key, tempo, texture etc. all over the place, but these changes are carried off (in the good compositions) so well that you hardly notice they have occured. The mood of the music changes but, unless you're really trying to figure it out, you often don't know why. This isn't the case in most of the prog I've heard, where the key/tempo changes are usually very abrupt, clumsy and ugly. Music can be clever, but sound raw and instinct and while prodding your emotions the whole time. Music that SOUNDS clever is, in my opinion, a level below music which hides how clever it is.

Having said that, I'm aware that I haven't listened to as much prog as I have many other genres, so there are doubtless subtleties to it that I've missed. Because I didn't like it. I do like Rick Wakeman - from having been taken to his concert by my dad once - but the few YES songs I've heard really didn't do it for me and, from what I've heard, this probably means that I would not go much on other prog bands.

Oh, I do like the Mars Volta too. Are they prog? I like them because they're nuts.

__________________

boo boo

Ah i f*cking hate the word "pretentious", all music is pretentious in some way, thats really a part of what music is all about...Pretending.

I seriously hope you are joking.

Dont be shy, make a list of what you have heard.

And this dosent apply to prog because?

Classical music isnt abrupt?....abruptness is often times part of the intention...As for clumsy and ugly i dont know where you got those ideas from...Most prog bands do have extreamly capable musicians (which apparantly means they suck) but they find ways to channel their abilitys into making an actual composition and as a attempt to do something different rather than just mere technical wankery, which is a profession for guys like Dream Theater...I dont agree with the idea that only technicaly limited musicians should be allowed to experiment, like in alternative rock...Of course im a big alt rock fan, so dont get me wrong.

Not all music should follow the same rules, and thats what annoys me, too many people critisize prog because it dosent really follow any of the rules associated with simple rock n roll (as examplfied by AC/DC and The Ramones)...But for heavens sake, imagine how boring music would be if every band today sounded like The Ramones.

To me what the music SOUNDS like is all that really matters, themes and lyrics are great, but they dont make the music, the musicians make the music, the music makes the music...In my opinion, a good melody means much more than some great lyrics, a band could make good music and horrible lyrics or a band could make horrible music and good lyrics, and the lyrics dont mean a thing to me if the music sounds horrible...I think too many people try to limit music to being nothing but someone reciting poetry over a repetitive beat.

Get Fragile and The Yes Album, i think you would like them if you gave them a chance.

In fact very few prog bands sound alike (in my opinion) and just because you dont like Yes dosent mean you wont llke other bands..So you cant say all prog is just like what you described because of what you have heard...There are few rules in prog.

Very.

Me too.

Try King Crimson.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

DontRunMeOver

Not really. Pretentious doesn't mean "pretending", it means 'an attempt to impress others' or 'trying to appear more important or distinct than it is'. My current view of prog would fit that.

I though I said the changes between sections and the harmonic modulations were abrupt? Having capable musicians certainly, to me, makes a band better. Trying to do something different is admirable, but at the same time there's no real point in praising somebody for trying something different if the end result doesn't sound great.

Its quite possible that these criticisms are aimed at the 'prog' that I have heard and recognised as 'prog'. Maybe I've heard some prog music and enjoyed it, but because I liked it I assumed it was some other style. I'm sorry, but I can't list which ones I've heard, as I tend not to remember the names of music I heard once and didn't like. Doing otherwise would be a waste of memory.

You and me both. Writing lyrics are important, but if you can't make good music to go with it then you're essentially just a rubbish poet, not a songwriter. The music comes first.

If I find a way to obtain it for free, with very little effort involved, then I shall. Otherwise... I won't.

You'll certainly be right in the case of some people. You may be right in my case.

__________________

MURDER JUNKIE

I'm confused, so the worst band in the world is named Prog??

hint hint

DontRunMeOver

Hint taken.

We are getting nowhere with this progressiveness.

__________________

boo boo

Again that can apply to pretty much anybody, if you think Paganini and Mozart didnt try to impress people you would be wrong, and heck, are you really going to tell me The Beatles werent pretentious?...How about Little Richard who really thinks of himself as the inventor of rock n roll, or what about Bob Dylan and all these punk and folk bands writing songs about everything they hear on the news because they think their opinions are important enough for people to hear it?...A lot of metal, rap and indie is pretentious..Are you going to tell me John Cage isnt pretentious?...The guy who made a 4 minute track of complete silence?...How about Radiohead and David Bowie?...The Doors?...Jimi Hendrix?...The Who?...Led Zeppelin?...I love them all, but they were all pretentious in ways.

Thats really a matter of opinion, there is bad prog just like there is bad anything, but theres also a lot of good prog, and i wouldnt like it if i didnt think it sounds great, the musicianship involved is just a bonus.

Ok, so im not even sure of what you have actualy been listening to...but you should drop by the prog ed thread and check out some of the bands listed, and you can do so with.

http://www.progarchives.com/

Theres a huge variety of bands listed, and theres a whole bunch of MP3s worth checking out, you're bound to come across something that will catch your interest.

You can also search through Myspace Music files.

What did i just say?...I LIKE prog music for the music, nothing else really, and still you're saying it like every prog band has mediocre lyrics, which certainly isnt true, Genesis and Jetrho Tull have very above average lyrics...Im really curious to find out who these bands are that you have been listening to.

Progarchives is a good place to start, but i could send you some stuff through PM or AIM if you want.

You can take my word for it.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

boo boo

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs