djchameleon

it doesn't matter who he stole it from. most people associate those moves with MJ not that other guy

he made them famous and a signature of his own

mjscarousal

No... yea he helped choregraph Smooth Criminal, BAD but MJ did the rest on his own. MJ was pop and locking it long before Jeffrey. He started working with him around 1987 ish 88-89 that extent. The kick, crotch grab etc is all MJ bro. So what Jeffrey (helped) with the choregraphy on 2 MJ vids, MJ is a talented dancer anyway.

Urban Hat€monger ?

Before?

I think you will find Daniel was doing that sort of thing in the mid 70s

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sleepy jack

This is why you're my favorite metalhead.

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jackhammer

Prince>Michael Jackson. Ever seen the Sign O The Times concert? jeez that man can dance, sing, play badas s guitar and play the drums. Grabbing your crotch and saying he he does'nt come close. Jackson's music was successful and catchy there is no denying that, but it is just disco music at the end of the day.

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mjscarousal

No I'm not saything that. I'm not saying just because a record is made in the 80's its consider "good music" or timeless lol because not ALL of old skool stuff is good but MAJORITY is alot better than the crap out now, well at least mainstream. We can talk about this ALL day long man... MJ is TIMELESS whether you accept it or not. People are still listening to his records, just like the Beatles. His records don't have an era on it either, thats why its STILL playing and of course its good music. As far as the Quincy Jones ish you keep on bringing up, I dunno any other way to say it because I've said is so many times. This is what you need to do, go to your C.D collection because I know you have at least one MJ C.D or buy it, borrow whatever.... and look at the the C.D booklets to OTW, Thriller, BAD and look at the lyrics. Then look under the lyrics you'll see the songwriters, producers, arrangers and you'll see Michael Jackson then maybe you'll get off his nut with this "Q deserves all the credit" crap, better yet look it up on the internet. The rest of MJ albums are real good to, why are u just making it seem like the only albums that MJ did that are good were the ones with Q. I could maybe maybe see you making a statement like that if you exactly listened to ALL his albums but you haven't thats why I don't get all this judemental crap your doin. Those are not the only three albums people talk about when it comes down to MJ. Maybe the people around YOU that you hear that most from say that. It doesn't mean everybody feels that way. So stop thinking for everybody else. "But I'm willing to bet" you don't even know what ur talking about bro or the facts so why are you making an assessment. Until you listen to ALL his albums and until you exactly look at the songwriters, arrangers, producers to ALL his songs then come at me again but for now what ur saying don't make no kind of sence.

Nice at the end... real mature. This is a music forum, right? Why bring up irrelavent bull that doesn't matter. I really could run my mouth all day long about that subject but it has nothing to do with this forum or convo, why bring it up? Its useless and it doesn't prove anything.


What I've realized about you and a couple of other people on here is that. You don't respect other people's music taste or what other people choose to listen to. For that matter, you don't respect peoples opinions period. If they don't listen to the same things you listen to then they have bad music taste. If they don't dislike the musicians/ artists you dislike then they have a problem. Just because its something you don't prefer doesn't mean the person has bad music taste or the music is bad. It just doesn't appeal to you. Who the crap are you to tell anyone to learn something about music, some random chick can say the say same thing to you, its really immature
Why don't you go and learn something about music and BROADEN ur taste Mcartney. I can see if this was a long convo about Justin Timberlake but its about Michael Jackson? I am so dumbfounded with all the hatin towards MJ when he is a really good artist, one of the greatest this world as ever seen.

You have some people who think the Beatles are irrelavant and overrated. Which we all know is bologni but still its somebodys ignorant opinion just like in this case. The Beatles were on the high top at there peak and mainstream. So there crap? There music isn't good because it was popularized? What you have to realized is this can go both ways not just with MJ, Beatles whatever. With anybody it doesn't matter. Anybody can argue so and so is overrated or this and that. Who the flook cares if so and so is mainstream. Just because its mainstream or popular doesn't necessarily make it bad music.

When I said people don't care about good music anymore I was referring to the mainstream crap and how people exactly buy it. Of course the underground stuff you have to dig out under a rug is good. There is good music out there you have to find it. You really need to work on just accepting peoples opinions even though it may not be something u agree on. I don't agree with anything you've said so far regarding MJ, it doesn't bother me, I could really give a .... about what you think or anybody else on here thinks but I respect ur opinion, thats you.. you need to learn to accept other people's because its not like you can change peoples views well at least mines, cause you can't.



So Stevie, Marvin, Tina Turner, Temptations and oh yea Michael Jackson... all of a sudden the 80's are crappy because I like MJ.. whatever. You keep saying probably this or that..... you need to stop assuming things. You don't know what somebody may choose to listen to because your not them. You have people who are like that yes, who just listen to the radio and they think thats the only music out there because there not expose to other music. Thats not to say that all the music playing on the radio is crap but right NOW hell yes during the 80's I can't say because I wasn't born lol but I know MJ was definitly on the radio so that being no not all of it was crap. Brittany Spears/ Backstreet those are acts that come and go and really believe it or not still of "now" .. Timeless music is the kind of music still going to be playing 30-50 years from now. For example, The Jackson 5, they had that no. hit "I want you back" back in 1969 that song is STILL playing and getting airplay on radio stations and here we are in 2007. Thats timeless music.

mjscarousal

lol Not trying to force you to listen to MJ, Frankly don't care if you ever do or dont, ur missing out though. My thing is just don't hate on and belittle Mike because MJ is tight. Yes people can argue that MJ albums suck those PEOPLE HAVE TO HAVE EXACTLY LISTENED TO ALL HIS ALBUMS TO MAKE SUCH AN ARGUEMENT. How you going to say so and so sucks, when you haven't even listened to the album for yourself to make an opinion? thats what your doing. You making all these arguements and you haven't listened to all his albums, you don't know what songs MJ's written and exactly produced and arranged himself. You keep on bringing up Q because you don't know ish your just assuming what YOU want to think and what YOU want to believe.




Bam right there.... see you find info which is good but you don't want to accept it... once again thats you. It doesn't change reality and what it really is. MJ plays instruments and writes hundreds and hundreds of songs. It takes him along time to narrow it down thats why he releases albums 4-5 years apart because he wants to choose to the right tracks. LOL ah... no Mike didn't play no instruments in the J5. So now your saying that his in the same category of 50 cent and JLO man you smoking some mad weed this convo is ridiculous its to funny lol We have a child prodigy dude been performing since he was 5 years old sold alot records with his bros and won alot of awards. Went solo conquered the music industry surpasses elvis, beatles etc sold ALOT more records, won alot more awards and you have the nerve to say his a 50 cent , JLo.. dude lay off whatever ur on because its stupid and ridiculous. If you don't prefer the man's music thats fine, I respect ur opinion but don't be making some outlandish crap comments, its stupid.




I don't understand you and how you come up with ur conclusions and how you make ur opinions. Now when I said don't mix apples and oranges I meant don't mix crap and talent together. You brought up paris hilton, don't know why.. but you brought her up to make a dumb comparision. I mentioned Prince last time because his sound is diverse like how MJ diverse's his music to. I said that to make a point earlier. Once again you mix apples and oranges again. For the last stinkin time PRINCE AND MJ ARE TWO DIFFERENT ARTISTS. 2 COMPLETLY DIFFERENT ARTISTS. How in the world are you going to compare to artists that have nothin common besides from the fact, they were both influenced by James Brown and both legends? How can you say another artist is a better musician when the other artist doesn't really play instruments? How can you make such an comparion when one doesn't do the other it doesn't make sence. I could see maybe if you said who is the better musician. Jimi Hendrix or Prince? Okay these are two artists that are MUSICIANS. MJ and Prince are NOT. MJ does play "some instruments" but MJ is an entertainer. Yes out of the two Prince is the better "musician".
.... It is good lyrics.. what is he talking about in the song?, matter of fact think about it. You want to examine songs now? and once again you need to exactly listen to ALL of MJ albums and not the main songs you think you know.


Never said MTV invented music videos and I never said MJ "invented" videos with a storyline and art and please correct me if I'm wrong. What I meant was his videos exactly are creative and innovative. You were comparing his vids to the crappy vids they make now, don't know why but you did. You have people now trying to copy the essence MJ had in his videos that can NEVER be re- done because its already been done. Thats the problem now with music nobody can't be innovative there just copying off of one another and of course that goes for the music vids to.


lol I see ur point base on how YOU feel. Whether the artists he influenced are crappy are not he still was influential. Whether the artists he influenced were crap or not. Janet and Boys II men are good. I wouldn't put them in the same category as like Stevie, Marvin, MJ etc but they are good. All the female acts model after her and there hasn't been a foreal r&b soul band like Boys II men since the 90's for (new skool). I feel you though... still even if some of the artists he influenced were crap he still was influential it doesn't matter if the artists are irrelavant. What that got to do with him? That has nothing to do with HIS talents and abilities just because an artist he influences sucks.

Urban Hat€monger ?

I respect other people's opinions on music , even when they are myopic fanboys.

I just don't agree with them.

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sleepy jack

Okay I guess i'd best start replying I was hoping you wouldn't completely ignore the latter half of my post but I guess that's too much to ask for from someone who can't even spell you or your.

Actually you know what after reading that i'm really not going to bother, half your points aren't even coherent or remotely countering. You don't even back up half of what you say you just go wrong! He plays tons of instruments but not even I can list what they are! So you know, how about you learn to reply in a semi-intelligent manner before replying at all. Maybe then I'll bother with a response, until then you can listen to Black or White and think you're hearing a sonic revolution.

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jonvech

hello, i think this is like my 2nd or third post or something, ah well, i felt this was a good topic to get the ball rolling again. I love a lot of music and artists. I don't think I have the widest range but for only being 20 I feel that may change over time. Right now I like everything from dylan, beatles, to electronic artists, I.E. aphex twin, caribou etc., and some (real) hip-hop. Probably not the most shocking taste in the world but hey.....however, I am always discovering new music and finding out I like different genre's. Lately I've been trying to discover some good reggae. Don't know how far I'll get with it. If anyone feels like pointing me in the direction of some good reggae artists that'd be grand....