Musikwala

I don't want to derail this thread and we're gonna have to agree to disagree on some things for sure, but...

how can you call their stuff from the 90s as anything remotely stadium rock?

Numb
Your Blue Room
Mofo

Sadly, the creative energy that they had in the 90s came crashing down in the 00s when bombastic stadium rockers with cheesy lyrics took center stage once again! I have a feeling that people hating on Bono or U2 are doing so because of the overhyped recent decade's output. Is that true, Badlittlekitten? Or have you always hated them? :p Then we will simply disagree and move on.

Badlittlekitten

'One' is the very definition of stadium rock and I'm sure that came out in the 90's. And what was the PopMart and Zoo T.v tours all about?

But your right, I've always hated them so lets move on.

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Exo

U2 is probably my vote for the most overrated. Joshua Tree is a classic album that I don't mind, but the overall population converting to worship these guys just seems unnecessary.

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EveryDayNormalGuy

One of the most underrated albums in my opinion is Songs by Regina Spektor (I would post the cover, but can't).

The voice she displays in this album is simply incredible. Although, many people don't even know about it.

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zachsd

While I sort of dislike referring to bands as being overrated, I guess I'll play along.

Some that come to mind:
-Belle and Sebastian
-Sufjan Stevens
-Animal Collective
-Zappa
-Elliott Smith
-Radiohead

Of course, all of these artists are good musicians, some are excellent, just overrated to varying degrees in my opinion.

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ThePhanastasio

^Interesting. Huh.

I'd be more interested to know where you get that Elliott Smith and Frank Zappa are overrated in particular. I can understand where you're coming from with the others, at least to a certain extent.

I guess I can *sort of* even see the Elliott Smith. But Zappa?

clutnuckle

While I don't particularly have an opinion on the matter, here's a (pretty long) article where people 'deconstruct the myth that Zappa is some sort of a genius': The Wire: Adventures in Modern Music: Article

Most people seem to see Zappa as overrated not because of the mass amount of fans he has, but the fanboyism that the ones he does have descend into. Quality > quantity, you could say.

Dayvan Cowboy

Most overrated? THE MARS VOLTA.

underrated? Zs!

zachsd

That article sort of sums up how I feel about Zappa, although the writer has an incredibly annoying writing style.

I feel that he's adored as an icon of counterculture, yet what he is offering in return isn't a different way of thinking or even an alternative philosophy. He attempts to break down Western cultural norms but offers nothing in return; anyone can be anti-mainstream, but it takes talent and thought to be anti-mainstream and then create an alternative to the mainstream. Zappa doesn't do that in my opinion. Yes, he does some very original things with music, but at the same time that music doesn't say anything to me, it doesn't offer anything but originality. Of course, I respect him for that, but this is a discussion about him being overrated, not necessarily about his ability as a musician.

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Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Well, this covers the only two things that have bothered me about Zappa:

-Extremely blatant misogyny, and blatant chauvinism. He's never given a good answer to why he does this, and seems to have legit done it to mock women's attempts to seek fair treatment. I do honestly feel this is done almost to the point of bigotry with Zappa, and have personally been sickened by it on occasion.
-Over repetition of a lot of gimmicks(especially doo-wap)

For me, the rest of it is give or take. A lot of what this guy seemingly hates Zappa for is what I personally love him for. Unflinching arrogance, Collaging of modern forms, and undying sarcasm(Why is it really important for him to be a poetic when he's mocking the concept of the arrogance of wannabe poet rockers?). Also, I don't get apparently why Zappa has to bring up moral alternatives to what he criticizes.

Find it weird the writer decided to criticize Zappa for being condescending, and hypocritical in the most hypocritically condescending way. Furthermore, I don't see how 90% of what he's being criticized here for is necessarily a bad thing.

It's like saying "Michaelangelo is a bad artist because he draws penises, and that makes me feel uncomfortable". I'm not saying that Zappa is the musical equivalent of Michaelangelo, but I don't understand how the sarcasm in his lyrical themes effect his legitimacy as an artist either way. ESPECIALLY, when he's very obviously trying to combat the American myth of the importance of lyrics in music. To attack him for being base, and immature is like attacking the Godfather for being too violent. It was necessary to get his point across. Worstly, Coyly attacking his fans for being childish because they aren't turned off by the lyrics/themes of his music shows worlds of pretension. "I couldn't get how somebody over 17..." complete bull****.

Now, I could see how somebody would call Zappa overrated in ways. He wasn't that great of a classical composer, frankly, his classical works are very average when not applied to rock forms. Same could be said about Jazz. In general, I think that's people missing the point as giving rock listeners avenues to these things is just as viable as mastering them yourself. If you see Zappa as a figure of being a master of all of these forms, then he is overrated. Zappa himself didn't however.

I think it's unfair to criticize somebody who so daringly integrated elements of jazz, classical, and avant-garde into mainstream rock in attempts to translate it to a broader audience as overrated. I personally love the man for the fact he ignored the whims of the audience, and commercial world by making himself pidgeonholeable. Plus, his influence on progressive, and experimental rock is unmistakable. I think music would be drastically different without Zappa, and if anything his influence is underrated.

Especially since the Beatles admitted to very much copycatting his style in their later career, and are given infinite words of credit for being innovative when drugs, jealousy, and envy took only five more years to burn them out(breaking off to a series of overexposed hit, and miss solo careers), and Zappa continued to evolve his works, and maintain his works in ways which many MANY rock bands mainstream or otherwise were considered geniuses for integrating. Without the need of praise or people kissing his ass, or continual spotlight exposure.

However, if we're looking into the vein of Zappa, I think if we're looking into overrated we should look into Mike Patton who basically did the exact same thing decades later, and somehow is considered a creative genius. I personally love a lot of what Patton has done, but I've seen so many things unfairly ripped apart by Patton fans for being unoriginal when it's clearly obvious he didn't necessarily invent a single thing he's done. Zappa fans may be arrogant, but I've never seen the sheer level of ridiculous in them tearing apart every single form of music that's even vaguely similar afterwards as Patton fans have.